The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

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MarkD
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The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by MarkD »

So I'm new to Corvairs, not new to building old cars and trucks. Pushing 60 pretty hard here and been dragging stuff home since I was 14, I'm sure a lot of you are the same. I even did a few year stint playing with VW bugs when I was a kid.

I bought a 65 Corvair convertible, what I'm thinking is a base model, Corsa? I basically bought it and stuck it in a barn for a future project so I'm not as versed on this now as I will be in the future. Its a non runner (one of the cylinders) but it is rust free, complete, and with very minor body work needed.

My end game for this car is to be able to hop in it with my wife and take off. Around here (PNW) or a cross country trip. I don't car about blistering performance, but I need it to keep up with traffic, and be able to climb our mountain passes with ease. And be ultra reliable.

After reading a little bit about the engines and the belt system (etc) it got me to worrying about reliability. My version also has the PG trans. Which I really don't have a problem with, I don't want to have to shift. I read where some people have put a Chevy G body chassis under a Corvair body and installed a 350 up front. This appeals to me because of the reliability of the small block 350, and the more modern drivetrain underneath. Its a lot of work, and not for the weak of heart, but I kind of like it. I have no want for a rear engine V-8, we have grand kids and it would be fun to drag them around with us now and again.

I'm getting ready to start another project, but before I do I got to thinking about the Corvair. Maybe update the suspension a bit, disks in front, and with a professionally built engine and trans ... Maybe it can be what I'm hoping for? I don't build engines and transmissions, I leave that to the pros. Like I said, I want reliability first. Maybe I should make the Corvair my next project? Make it great underneath, and do the cosmetics while we have a little fun with the car.

I'm pretty sure most of the members here are purists, so try to remember Corvairs are all new to me, no insults intended. Open to all thoughts. Also open to any ideas on where to get a complete ready to bolt in engine, with warranty if possible. I can get the transmission taken care of myself, I have a guy I use. Thanks for the thoughts and tips.
66vairguy
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Post by 66vairguy »

Not that many "purists" in the Corvair world. Compared to some old cars the Corvair is inexpensive and attracts a lot of folks who like to tinker.

Folks may argue, but any old car is not going to be as reliable as a new one. When new the Corvair was as durable as any car of the era. After all these decades it is difficult to determine what repairs were made or how well the car was maintained. My local Corvair transaxle specialist still gets units with THE ORIGINAL LUBE in them! Of course they are badly worn.

As far as driving cross country! I would drive my Corvair cross country, but all the mechanicals are rebuilt and I've put more into the car than it is worth!! Hey - it's a hobby. I also know how to work on my car if it breaks where you can't find a Corvair mechanic.

In order to make your car reliable for a long journey may require a considerable investment. You might want to consider just getting it running for local enjoyment were the worst that can happen is it breaks down and has to be towed home (most old car insurance companies have tow options).
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caraholic4life
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by caraholic4life »

The 500 was the base model for coupes and sedans and the base for convertibles was the Monza. The top of the line for the early model coupes and convertibles would be the Spyder (1962-1964) and the Corsa (1965-1966). From 1967 to 1969, the Monza was top of the line but the 140 (4 1bbl's) was an option.

Regarding the reliability of the Corvair Drivetrain, Back when they were new and even when they were twenty some years old, these drivetrains were very much reliable but like anything else, not without their issues. Not only that, they were relatively easy to work on even though many were afraid of them because they were "Different". :think:

Fast forward to these vehicles generally being 50 years old (give or take), they can still be very reliable if they are not worn out. For your purposes, I would suggest investing in a freshly rebuilt drivetrain, brakes, fuel system and suspension/brakes to get the vehicle in as good a condition as you can expect.
It won't be inexpensive to do it right to begin with, but don't be surprised if you get stranded by something that wasn't done if you don't. :my02:

IF you really like the idea of a front engine V8 Corvair Convertible, there is one currently listed on flea bay http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Chevrolet- ... 5o&vxp=mtr it is at a dealer in Illinois. The first time I saw it listed, the ad showed a matching trailer but it is not shown in the current ad. (Attached should be photo's from a prior listing of the car)

Keep in mind that the advantage of building a car to meet your needs will take longer than you think (even if you double your initial estimate) and cost more than even a generous budget you may have in mind. The dowside of buying a finished car is that it was done to someone else's taste and you can also inherit pre-existing problems the car may have that are or are not disclosed when you buy it.

IF you are inclined to buy a car that is already done, there is an individual on the Corvair Center Forum currently looking for a Convertible with a good body in need of a driveline. http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,959392

For what it is worth, these comments are being made by someone who has already seen sixty....but then it was not to many years ago either.
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MarkD
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by MarkD »

Thanks for the responses so far. I do get that Ill be into this more than it is worth, that's the old car hobby right? It will be rebuilt correctly from the ground up. I'm well aware of the time you think it will take vs. the time it will really take =).

I have no interest in buying a finished car, and I don't want a hot rod Corvair. It will defiantly be a "period piece", meaning a look from the mid 60's. No staggered wheels size front to rear though, I do want to carry a spare that fits all four corners. The ONLY reason I was thinking newer frame and small block Chev was reliability and drivability.

Does anyone have a recommendation for Corvair engine work here in the greater Seattle area? I think it would be worth my while to talk to an expert face to face.
66vairguy
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by 66vairguy »

Craig Nicol posts as cnicol on the Corvair Center forum. He is on the Wash. Idaho border and has a lot of Corvair experience.

The 110HP engine is a great match for an automatic Corvair. The 140HP sounds tempting, but in fact the 140HP engine for the automatic got a different cam in an effort to restore some low end torque needed with the automatic. The 110HP has two carbs making it easy to tune and has plenty of low end grunt needed for a PG (auto) Corvair.
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by terribleted »

A 65 Corvair with automatic and 2 carb engine is generally very reliable and drivable. The powerglide transmissions are nearly bullet proof as they are essentially the same internals as the powerglides used in the heavier larger cars. The engines are fine once they are in good form to begin with (might require rebuilding and almost always some re-sealing with fresh o-rings and gaskets). The belt is really pretty mush a non-issue. It must be tensioned correctly and also be the correct belt (many belts that are supposed to fit really are not correct...too narrow...too fat etc.), and if these 2 things are right they generally will give little trouble. 2 carb engine automatic Corvair, is a great cruiser.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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martyscarr
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by martyscarr »

Does anyone have a recommendation for Corvair engine work here in the greater Seattle area?
Hello Mark

The Seattle area has 2 active Corvair clubs that can help you find some help with your car. Contact Danny Davis, one of the western directors of CORSA at mr.dan.davis@outlook.com regarding hooking up with the clubs.

As far as reliability, a well maintained car should give you little trouble. In October I rode with Rex Johnson from Salem, OR to the Fan Belt Toss in Palm Springs. Towing his Corvair trailer full of parts and covering about 2500 miles round trip, we had no car trouble and got 22-24 MPG. We brought back more parts than we took to sell (mostly cores) and weighed 5400 pounds on the trip home. The car is a 1969 Monza convertible with a 140 engine and 4 speed transmission, and all smog equipment is functional.

In my opinion Rex is the long distance Corvair King - he has driven his car and trailer to most of the recent national conventions and has little trouble on the road. Some of those trips were over 5000 miles. Here's a pic of his car and trailer (which he built).
rex trailer.jpg
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HTH
Marty Scarr
66vairguy
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by 66vairguy »

He has a neat trailer made from a cut Corvair, but geez I've been waiting over a decade for him to put a decent paint job on it.
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lostboy
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by lostboy »

I drive my 61 on 200mi trips every year since getting it back together. Mechanically I've done everything except rebuild the engine, but I have the original 80hp which is said to be the most reliable. The power glide is also said to be more reliable because you don't have to worry about a clutch cable breaking. I have a 3 speed and carry an extra cable in the car. When new these cars were driven all over. My grandfather bought a 61 two door from a pair of sisters that drove it from California to NJ and that was in the early 80s.

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joelsplace
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by joelsplace »

One thing not mentioned is the fact that the suspension, ride and handling were far ahead of anything else offered domestically built at the time. To get a better chassis you would have to go with a later C5 or better. The drum brakes even work really well due to the weight distribution and their size vs the weight of the car.
The only reliability issues really with the engine are dropped valve seats which won't be an issue if you get someone that knows what they are doing to install deep seats. Ken Hand comes to mind but there are a lot of other Corvair only shops that do a good job. Don't stake the seats. It doesn't work.
I've run my worn out '63 wide open in the Texas summers for more than 30 minutes at a time more times than I can count with no issues. I know a guy that flew to CA to drive a ragged 140 back to TX and ran it wide open most of the way with no issues.
Belts aren't an issue unless you have a modified engine that you run at high rpm with a manual trans. If you have belt problems you are running the wrong belt or have a bearing, pulley or alignment issue. I would recommend an electronic ignition with the old points plate stored in the glove box. I haven't had a Pertronix 1 or a Crane XR700 fail. I've heard of a lot of Pertronix II failures.
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lostboy
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by lostboy »

joelsplace wrote:One thing not mentioned is the fact that the suspension, ride and handling were far ahead of anything else offered domestically built at the time. To get a better chassis you would have to go with a later C5 or better. The drum brakes even work really well due to the weight distribution and their size vs the weight of the car.
The only reliability issues really with the engine are dropped valve seats which won't be an issue if you get someone that knows what they are doing to install deep seats. Ken Hand comes to mind but there are a lot of other Corvair only shops that do a good job. Don't stake the seats. It doesn't work.
I've run my worn out '63 wide open in the Texas summers for more than 30 minutes at a time more times than I can count with no issues. I know a guy that flew to CA to drive a ragged 140 back to TX and ran it wide open most of the way with no issues.
Belts aren't an issue unless you have a modified engine that you run at high rpm with a manual trans. If you have belt problems you are running the wrong belt or have a bearing, pulley or alignment issue. I would recommend an electronic ignition with the old points plate stored in the glove box. I haven't had a Pertronix 1 or a Crane XR700 fail. I've heard of a lot of Pertronix II failures.
Why ditch the points?

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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by bbodie52 »

lostboy wrote:Why ditch the points?
Ignition points are 1960s (and earlier) technology. They are a simple contact switch that began to wear out the day they are placed in service. As they wear, the dwell angle changes and the ignition timing changes. The high electrical current that passes through the ignition coil primary winding causes arcing and burning of the ignition points contacts every time they open and close. Engineers attempted to reduce the effects of electrical current arcing by designing a dual voltage power system that feeds the ignition coil, powering the coil with a full 12 V DC only when the engine is being cranked, and reducing the voltage through a ballast resistor to a nominal 7 V DC during normal operation. This lower voltage during engine operation helps to prolong the life of the ignition points — but they still wear and continue to need minor adjustments throughout their lifespan and frequent replacement during regular tuneups. As ignition points wear they affect ignition coil performance, which can result in a weaker spark. This characteristic, coupled with ignition timing changes can also produce lower engine performance and deteriorating gas mileage.

The development of breakerless electronic ignition systems in the 1970s allowed the ignition points and condenser to be eliminated — replacing them with a transistorized electronic switching system that maintained consistent operating parameters and controlling the charging and discharging cycle of the ignition coil, while eliminating the performance degradation that was characteristic of the ignition points system. The electronic breakerless ignition system utilizes either a magnetic pulse (Pertronix) or an optical LED switching system (Crane Cams) to trigger the ignition coil. Recently a third option was made available in the form of a replacement distributor that includes both a brand-new distributor system and a magnetic pulse breakerless electronic ignition system. The total cost of this new distributor system can be somewhat cheaper than the components needed to overhaul the original Corvair distributor and modify it using either a Crane Cams or Pertronix upgrade. (Turbocharged Corvair owners may need to retain the stock Corvair distributor in order to retain the pressure retard device that is needed to reduce ignition timing under turbocharged boost. For these turbocharged engines, the Pertronix or Crane Cams systems are optimum since they allow retaining the original distributor with his pressure retard device).

Image :link: https://www.perfvair.com/stinger-ignition-distributors/

Image :link: http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx

Image :link: http://www.cranecams.com/404-405.pdf


:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ow_page=74
Image

NOTE: When converting the Corvair to electronic breakerless ignition system, the installer should carefully follow the instructions that are packaged with the conversion kit. The Crane Cams XR-700 electronic module is designed to operate with the original ballast resistor wire retained in the power circuit (using a nominal 7 V DC power source). The Crane Cams electronic module will tend to overheat if it is powered by a full 12 V DC. Conversely, the Pertronix and Stinger distributor both require a full 12 V DC power source for their electronic components. The installation of these systems requires bypassing the ballast resistor circuit in the Corvair wiring harness.

A high-performance ignition coil may be substituted for the factory coil, and a high-performance coil may require a full continuous 12 V DC power source to allow it to produce a maximum spark voltage for the spark plug circuit. This higher voltage in the ignition system secondary (spark plug voltage) is not essential for the Corvair engine however. The relatively low RPM engine operation speed and low compression ratio operates satisfactorily with the lower spark voltage normally produced by the standard coil coupled with a ballast resistor in the circuit.
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lostboy
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by lostboy »

bbodie52 wrote:
lostboy wrote:Why ditch the points?
Ignition points are 1960s (and earlier) technology. They are a simple contact switch that began to wear out the day they are placed in service. As they wear, the dwell angle changes and the ignition timing changes. The high electrical current that passes through the ignition coil primary winding causes arcing and burning of the ignition points contacts every time they open and close. Engineers attempted to reduce the effects of electrical current arcing by designing a dual voltage power system that feeds the ignition coil, powering the coil with a full 12 V DC only when the engine is being cranked, and reducing the voltage through a ballast resistor to a nominal 7 V DC during normal operation. This lower voltage during engine operation helps to prolong the life of the ignition points — but they still wear and continue to need minor adjustments throughout their lifespan and frequent replacement during regular tuneups. As ignition points wear they affect ignition coil performance, which can result in a weaker spark. This characteristic, coupled with ignition timing changes can also produce lower engine performance and deteriorating gas mileage.

The development of breakerless electronic ignition systems in the 1970s allowed the ignition points and condenser to be eliminated — replacing them with a transistorized electronic switching system that maintained consistent operating parameters and controlling the charging and discharging cycle of the ignition coil, while eliminating the performance degradation that was characteristic of the ignition points system. The electronic breakerless ignition system utilizes either a magnetic pulse (Pertronix) or an optical LED switching system (Crane Cams) to trigger the ignition coil. Recently a third option was made available in the form of a replacement distributor that includes both a brand-new distributor system and a magnetic pulse breakerless electronic ignition system. The total cost of this new distributor system can be somewhat cheaper than the components needed to overhaul the original Corvair distributor and modify it using either a Crane Cams or Pertronix upgrade.

Image :link: https://www.perfvair.com/stinger-ignition-distributors/

Image :link: http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx

Image :link: http://www.cranecams.com/404-405.pdf


:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ow_page=74
Image

NOTE: When converting the Corvair to electronic breakerless ignition system, the installer should carefully follow the instructions that are packaged with the conversion kit. The Crane Cams XR-700 electronic module is designed to operate with the original ballast resistor wire retained in the power circuit (using a nominal 7 V DC power source). Electronic module will tend to overheat if it is powered by a full 12 V DC. Conversely, the Pertronix and Stinger distributor both require a full 12 V DC power source for there electronic components. The installation of these systems requires bypassing the ballast resistor circuit in the Corvair wiring harness. A high-performance ignition coil may be substituted for the factory coil, and a high-performance coil may require a full continuous 12 V DC power source to allow it to produce a maximum spark voltage for the spark plug circuit. This higher voltage in the ignition system secondary (spark plug voltage) is not essential for the Corvair engine however. The relatively low RPM engine operation speed and low compression ratio operates satisfactorily with the lower spark voltage normally produced by the standard coil coupled with a ballast resistor in the circuit.
Thank you for the advanced reply. I tend to like using and replacing the points system. It's just as reliable when adjusted properly isn't it?

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1961 Corvair 700 Sedan (80hp 3spd Gasoline Heat)
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wbabst
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by wbabst »

When I was in college I bought my first car, a 1956 Buick Super Sedan. I then sold my VW my dad had given me and bought a 51 Plymouth Cranbrook Club Coupe. From that point on the newest car I have bought for my self is a 1965 Lincoln Continental. In between has been cars from the 50's and early 60's. I drove them every day. I used them to get to work, go cross country and of course go to shows. Yeah I have been stranded a few times, but usually with a new buy, once I have had time to go through them they have proven very reliable and lots of fun. I would say reliability is similar as new cars, its just the maintenance requirements are much higher. I am driving my 61 Lakewood every day to get to work and having fun doing it.
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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by lostboy »

wbabst wrote:When I was in college I bought my first car, a 1956 Buick Super Sedan. I then sold my VW my dad had given me and bought a 51 Plymouth Cranbrook Club Coupe. From that point on the newest car I have bought for my self is a 1965 Lincoln Continental. In between has been cars from the 50's and early 60's. I drove them every day. I used them to get to work, go cross country and of course go to shows. Yeah I have been stranded a few times, but usually with a new buy, once I have had time to go through them they have proven very reliable and lots of fun. I would say reliability is similar as new cars, its just the maintenance requirements are much higher. I am driving my 61 Lakewood every day to get to work and having fun doing it.
I envy your wagon!

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Re: The overall reliability of the Corvair drivetrain

Post by joelsplace »

Points will work fine. I wouldn't say they are just as reliable. When they do have issues you are more likely to be able to fix them on the side of the road and get home but they do take a lot of maintenance to keep best performance. I like to pop in a Pertronix 1 and forget about it.
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