No Reverse... Help!

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joefarmer
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No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:03 am

Rebuilt engine and rebuilt PG back in the 1964 Monza. All is going good (fixing small leaks, tuning carbs, so on and so forth); finally took it for a test drive this past weekend and I have no reverse! Engine runs good, good forward gears and neutral, but it's like reverse doesn't even engage.

So, I looked around on the web and found a few people saying that the PG cable should be in "D" when reinstalling the transmission. Since I had it in "N" the first time I put the cable back in the PG tunnel I pulled it back out, had my wife switch to "D" (and watched the cable move), then reinstalled with a new O-ring into the PG tunnel.

Shifted back to "N" after installation, cranked the car, and almost went through the front wall of the garage!! It was in drive even with the gear selector placed in "N"!!!

Someone please help me before I lose my mind or knock down my garage. What am I doing wrong? :banghead:
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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terribleted
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:05 am

Your most recent cable install appears to be incorrect since the symptoms changed and drive is where neutral should be. Remove and re-install the cable again at the trans end. Remove both throttle rods from the trans lever, put selector in D, remove cable, rotate the lever fully counterclockwise and re-install the cable while holding the lever CCW. As the ball on the cable engages the lever it will push the lever clockwise as it goes that last little bit in, this is normal and you should let the lever move CW as the cable seats. Cable should be good after this. Maybe your reverse issue will be gone as well, but, you may have another issue causing the now reverse problem. At least perhaps the cable install will get it back to having drive and an actual neutral.
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joefarmer
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:08 am

Thanks terribleted! Do you think I have caused any damage to the trans since I drove it around the block with incorrect cable installation?
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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bbodie52
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by bbodie52 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:19 am

See page 40L of the attached Corvair Powerglide Automatic Transmission Service Guide - PART 5 OF 5. Shift cable testing and adjustment procedures are covered there.

CORVAIR POWERGLIDE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION SERVICE GUIDE

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=5760

The link below will provide you with a list of useful websites that are Corvair-related. Some of the links will lead you to an extensive technical library that will allow you to download shop manuals and other technical references in Adobe Reader format at no cost. There is also a link that will help you to locate nearby CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters. While the Corvair Forum can be very helpful as you work on your Corvair, having local friends and contacts in your region who are knowledgeable about the Corvair can also be very helpful. These family-friendly CORSA chapters often offer picnics, group scenic drives, technical training and assistance, car shows, and competition events that can greatly enhance your enjoyment of Corvair ownership. You will also find a list of essential Corvair parts suppliers. Clark's Corvair Parts is the biggest and oldest Corvair supplier in the world.

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007
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Corvair Powerglide Automatic Transmission Service Guide - PART 5 OF 5.pdf
Corvair Powerglide Automatic Transmission Service Guide - PART 5 OF 5
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terribleted
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:36 am

I would say you did not damage anything. It was in drive, it was in neutral, do not see an issue with the test drive. Drive in neutral is a common result of the cable not being in correctly. Ask me how I know?:) I have had other incorrect results as well. If it goes back to normal neutral and drive but no reverse I would bet your reverse issue is something other than the cable install. Perhaps the manual valve is not adjusted correctly so the cable is not pushing it all the way into reverse position. This adjustment is recommended after overhaul, and dash selector assembly or cable replacement. You will need to drop the pan and have special tool J-8365 to do the adjustment. Clark's sells a special tool for this. Procedures are on page 6E-4 of your 1961 GM Corvair Shop Manual.
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Trip
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by Trip » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:11 pm

I'll be interested to hear the results, I have little doubt Ted's diagnosis will be correct but I hope we hear for sure.

As for the cable installation, one thing I've seen cause confusion is that when you hold the arm CCW to install the cable you have to turn past it's normal travel and hold it against spring tension. Some of the gentler folks tend to stop at the end of normal travel and hold it there because they subscribe to the "use your mind not your muscles" philosophy!
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terribleted
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by terribleted » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:51 am

Indeed the lever must be fully CCW to insert the cable...there is a detent that you turn it past...there is a little resistance as it goes past this. My TV lever idea is just a guess there are other things that can cause no reverse....the manual valve adjustment is something that is easy to check and could cause this issue. From the troubleshooting guide in the 61 shop manual the top 2 items for no reverse are the manual valve adjustment and the cable install.
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joefarmer
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:37 pm

Alright, got some updates from work done over the weekend.

Pulled the cable back out and rotated the TV lever down CCW all the way then inserted the cable back in and felt it push the TV lever back CW. When done, the hole for the linkage rod to the carbs was just below the gasket level.... great.

Now here is my trouble. At this position there is no clearance to install the linkage rod (to the carbs) back into the TV lever. I know I'm doing something wrong because I can't find this exact issue on the forum anywhere.

So, to install the linkage back in I shifted into N, pulled the TV lever back up CW (so the hole is back above the gasket line) and installed the linkage. Now I once again have good N, D, and L, but when I shift into R the engine idles down (like it's in gear) but still no reverse. I can feel the engine "engage" with the gear like you would expect, but no reverse action whatsoever.

I suppose another way of asking my questions is this. What should the TV lever look like with respect to the pan gasket when installing the shift cable and then what should it look like when installing the linkage rod? Anybody got pics?

Any suggestions for this? What in the world am I doing wrong?
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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terribleted
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:13 pm

OK so you should be able to rotate the lever clockwise enough in drive to easily connect the throttle rod. What I am reading is that your throttle rod to the carbs is not long enough once in the TV lever to reach the carb cross shaft at the rods longest adjustment. The hole for the throttle rod should be well above the pan gasket level in all shifter positions. If you can not turn it clockwise with the selector in drive enough for a stock throttle rod to work, something is wrong with the cable install, the manual valve adjustment, or perhaps the cable itself. I would remove the pan and inspect the cable install. You can see if the cable ball is in its little silver catch on the lever or not. I would then make sure the TV lever was assembled properly and is connected to the manual valvce, then I would use my special tool from Clark's to check and adjust the manual valve as per the manual. I would actuate the cable with the dash selector and visually see what it is doing to the lever. Is it moving the manual valve to all positions? I would then reassemble the pan and try to operate the transmission without bothering to hook up the throttle linkages in case they might be stopping shifting because of some fault with them. If it has drive, neutral, and reverse at this point I would be looking closely for a throttle linkage way out of adjustment or faulty in some way. If after the recheck and manual valve adjustment there is still no reverse the manual lists these other possibilities : reverse clutch piston stuck, reverse clutch plates worn out, reverse clutch leaking, blocked reverse clutch apply orifice. DO NOT forget it could still be a faulty cable. I would certainly try a different one before I tore into the trans internals.
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joefarmer
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:42 pm

Once again, thanks terribleted. Pan will be coming off this week for a visual check as you have prescribed. I'll be sure to post back with findings. Maybe this thread will help someone else out in the future.
Joe Farmer
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terribleted
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:59 pm

The adjustment of the manual valve could certainly cause this symptom. I have not thought about a good way to do this adjustment without the special tool. Bear in mind that there may be variation from cable to cable that make this adjustment necessary as well.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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joefarmer
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by joefarmer » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:39 pm

Alright, just got in from a test drive. Pulled the cable again and did a proper TV lever alignment, so now I have reverse. However, it is an odd type of reverse. Two strange symptoms.

1. Reverse only kicks in after about 4 seconds. So I shift from N to R, and then after a moment or so the engine kicks down from regular idle to a loaded idle and the car starts to roll backwards. But this is only after 4-5 seconds... shouldn't it be almost instantaneous?

2. Reverse gear is weak. What I mean by weak is that if I give it a lot of gas in R, the engine just revs but the car doesn't go backwards any faster. If i just pad the gas a little it seems to engage the reverse gear better and the car rolls backwards quicker.

Will a check and adjustment of the manual valve solve these issues? Or is there something else going on here?
Joe Farmer
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terribleted
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by terribleted » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:31 pm

If the valve is not properly adjusted it could possibly cause just what you are describing. The valve may be between gears so maybe you are not getting full fluid flow to the reverse circuit for example (maybe even neutral and reverse at the same time perhaps). The manual valve must be positioned to give full flow to the gear selected in order to function properly. This is a simple but important adjustment. Ok you could have an issue within the reverse circuit of the transmission also, but, you need to properly adjust the manual valve before looking any farther.
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64powerglide
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by 64powerglide » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:42 am

How much transmission fluid is in it?
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Kalamazoo, Mi..

joefarmer
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by joefarmer » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:47 pm

Fluid is at the correct level when at operating temperature. That was my first guess as well.

Looks like I'll be ordering the special manual valve tool from Clarks. Anybody got one I can borrow?? haha
Joe Farmer
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Re: No Reverse... Help!

Unread post by 64powerglide » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:48 pm

Disconnect the vacuum line coming from the modulator valve & see what it does in gear.
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