The belt and such other newbie troubles

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naderwaswrong
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The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by naderwaswrong »

Here is a question I imagine is as old as the Corvair itself. What causes it to sling the belt? Also, what is a good replacement belt? And lastly, what is involved to swap to an alternator? Car is a 63 with a 66 engine, but still has a generator. Thanks.
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terribleted
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Re: The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by terribleted »

The key to not throwing a belt id proper tension and the correct belt. I have had very good luck with Clark's C5790 Ultimate fan belt. I have also had good luck with Dayco topcog belt I believe the number is 15570. Many parts tore belt are not correct even thought they call out as being so. Belt should be tensioned so that you can just slip the gen/alt pulley with your hand..this means pretty tight but you can just barely make it slip in the belt without a tool and without hurting your fingers. Pulleys must be aligned properly and you must have the correct parts for each type Gen or Alt. Spacers or other modifications can and will cause belt issues. Are you sure you have the correct oil filter adapter/ generator mounting bracket (the aluminum piece that the oil filter and oil filler neck are mounted to) installed? The generator mounting part of this piece is thin (less than 1/2") the alternator version is at least 2 times as thick.

To swap to an alternator you would need the alternator type oil filter adapter a suitable alternator and alternator voltage regulator if the alternator requires one (stock alternators need this but many people convert to internally regulated alternators), and a proper alternator rear support bracket is ideal. You would also need to do re-wiring in the engine bay to accommodate whatever alternator you are converting to. Diagrams can be found in the CORSA Tech Guide for stock and internal alternator conversion. Rear support brackets for the internal alternators are not the same as the stock item. I am not sure of a source for this custom part (it is included with Clark's Internal alternator conversion setup but not listed separately). You could just fabricate one from a suitable piece of 1/8" steel bar stock (not too hard as it is a straight piece with bends at both ends).
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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Trip
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Re: The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by Trip »

Ted got you the info you need, but I'll add that when adjusting the belt tension as he described err on the side of too loose rather than too tight. Check it pretty frequently. If we replace the belt every two years or so and keep the belt adjusted to where you can turn the alternator/generator pulley with a finger without making a dent in the finger we never throw a belt and we've put a lot of miles on. Nevertheless, we always carry a spare belt and a 9/16" wrench and Missy usually changes our belts so she is confident she can do the job if the need ever arises when she's on the road.
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terribleted
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Re: The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by terribleted »

Yes if you can not turn it or it takes an act of congress to do so it is too tight. I have driven a couple hundred thousand Corvair miles over the years, have always adjusted the belt as described and I have throw a total of 1 belt. That belt was old and cracking and I knew it. I had just not gotten around to changing it yet. Lucky thing is that that car was a late model with A/C and a high mount compressor....the A/C belt is an inch plus too long but it got me home:)
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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Re: The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by bbodie52 »

The cumulative mass of the rotating fan and generator/alternator is continually at war with the changing rotation speed of the crankshaft pulley. Manual transmission cars in particular place a lot of stress on the belt as the engine revs up to speed and then suddenly drops off at each shift. The "flywheel effect" of the heavier steel fans put a lot of strain on the fan belt as the crankshaft speed changes and the heavy steel fan resists the engine RPM change. The fan belt ends up straining with each engine speed variation, and the lightweight magnesium fan greatly reduces the stresses involved. The lightweight magnesium blower and belt guides seem to work very well — with minimal stress on the belt.

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The belts do fatigue with age and should be replaced every few years as a precautionary measure. It is usually not a good idea to reuse one after it has flipped — even if it looks OK and seems to be intact. Internal damage to the hidden tensile support strands can occur if the belt flips and is forced to ride up over the pulley structure. If a new belt flips it may have stretched with "break-in" mileage and might have needed to be re-adjusted. If you repeatedly have such problems with your Corvair there may be a problem with excessive drag in a faulty fan or idler pulley bearing, or a problem with the alternator bearings. A failing harmonic balancer can also cause belt problems.

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The image above displays the support strands that are embedded around the perimeter of the belt to provide it with tensile strength. A belt that has flipped off from the Corvair pulleys on its own may have suffered damage to these support strands that are internal and hidden from view. However, one or more damaged strands within the belt can severely weaken its overall tensile strength, which means it is likely to flip off again as it stretches if a damaged belt is reused.

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There are two 9/16 inch fasteners securing the idler pulley. The hole and the separate groove (or slot) in the above photograph shows the locations where bolt and nut tension is applied to secure the idler pulley in place. Late-model cars that are fitted with a magnesium blower also have belt guides at the idler pulley and at the main fan pulley. Specified clearance between the belt/pulley and each belt guide is 1/16 of an inch. The idler pulley tension must be adjusted to provide both proper belt tension and proper clearance between the belt and the belt guide.

A good rule of thumb (literally) when adjusting belt tension is that proper tension has been achieved if there is a slight slippage between the belt and the alternator/generator pulley when pressure is applied with your thumb to the alternator/generator cooling fan blade. If there is no slippage the belt is likely too tight.

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Some time ago I developed and posted schematic wiring diagrams for a number of Corvair model years.

I have updated and added additional schematic diagrams to that thread to cover Corvair model years from 1962 to 1965. I have also included modified schematics for 1962, 1963, and 1964 that show the wiring changes needed for the installation of a standard Corvair alternator with external voltage regulator in place of the original generator-based charging system.

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

An alternator conversion is a modification that is a common upgrade in EM Corvairs. It requires changing the oil filter/generator adapter to provide a proper mount, and removing the old charging system and replacing it with a new alternator. Many suitable alternators have an internal integrated electronic voltage regulator, which can simplify the upgrade by eliminating the old external voltage regulator configuration.
A conversion from a generator to an alternator in 1960-1964 Corvairs is often a topic of conversation and sometimes confusion. I have located some good material on this subject, and have compiled it here. Hopefully this information will be of some help.

There are several options in the conversion:
  • Use an externally regulated 10DN Delco alternator, as seen on late model 1965-69 Corvairs.
  • Use an internally regulated 10SI or 12SI Delco alternator off a slightly later GM product.
  • A true one wire setup. Here a special self exciting regulator is installed in a 10SI style alternator. Control of the dash idiot light is lost if this is used.

    The explanation shown below, along with its website link, seems to be one of the best explanations I've seen seen that describes some of the Delco alternator options available that could be fitted to a Corvair. (Keep in-mind the reverse rotation of the Corvair engine, which does not affect the alternator charging system but must be considered when fitting a cooling fan and pulley to the alternator — since the cooling fans are designed to rotate either clockwise or counter-clockwise. Proper air circulation is important for cooling an alternator).

    A standard Corvair alternator output capacity:
    • Alternator P/N: 1100639 — 35 Amps
    • Alternator P/N: 1100698 — 45 Amps
Greater charging capacities might be considered if the Corvair is fitted with special high-current, high intensity headlamps, some form of electric heater, or a custom sound system with external amplifiers supporting a special speaker configuration with subwoofer(s).

An alternator with an internal electronic voltage regulator makes good use of the increased reliability of a solid-state voltage regulator to replace the 1960s vintage external electro-mechanical voltage regulator. However, a switch to a single-wire alternator instead of a 3-wire alternator cannot be justified, and is not desirable in my opinion. The ability of being able to monitor for an intact Corvair cooling system using the instrument panel warning lights (GEN/FAN) is very important. The use of a single wire alternator configuration causes this instrument panel capability to be lost.

Alternator Conversion
DELCO REMY models 10SI & 12SI alternators

Visual Identification and Differences


:link: http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... remy.shtml

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To replace an EM generator with an alternator, the oil filter and generator mount adaptor must be replaced with the oil filter and alternator mount adaptor found on 1965-1969 Corvair engines. These used adaptors can usually be obtained from sources on eBay or from sources like the Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania...

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:link: http://www.corvairranch.com/

Suitable alternators can be sourced from normal Corvair suppliers, auto parts suppliers, eBay, local automotive junk yards, etc.

This link provides some additional information on the CCW rotation alternator fan and proper cooling for a high-capacity alternator mounted on a Corvair engine...

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:link: http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.ph ... 130,612166

More information on fitting newer-design Delco alternators to Corvairs...

:link: http://www.unm.edu/~geoffj/Vair/Alternator.html
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=84A
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Brad Bodie
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Danny Joe
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Re: The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by Danny Joe »

Also check the pulleys for rust. This will sand the sides of the belt down very fast.
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naderwaswrong
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:25 am

Re: The belt and such other newbie troubles

Post by naderwaswrong »

Well that explains it. Took a look when I got the car and said "Oh look loose belt'' and tightened it up real good. :nono:
I'll put some research into the alternator swap. Thanks.
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