Valve lifter question...

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acarlson
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Valve lifter question...

Post by acarlson »

When I rebuilt my engine I installed new valve lifters. After adjusting the rocker arms I could pull the top of the rocker and slightly depress the lifter piston into the lifter body. I could do this with all 12 lifters.

I pulled the valve covers off today and set #1 to TDC compression. This should have returned the lifters on #1 to an unpressurized state. If I pull the top of the intake rocker outward which pushes the pushrod into the lifter, there is no preload - the lifter piston doesn't move. If I do the same on the exhaust rocker, the lifter piston will depress slightly. If I loosen the intake rocker nut beyond 0 lash, same problem.

It seems to me that I should always be able to compress the lifter piston when the cylinder piston is at TDC. That's the "engineer" in me talking. I've been known to be wrong. Do I have a problem or am I creating a problem that doesn't really exist ?
Alec Carlson
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SeamusNZ
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by SeamusNZ »

Hi there from New Zealand. I had s similar problem when setting my valves. Seems I had to set TDC on No2 cylinder, not No1???

Kind regards... SeamusNZ


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64powerglide
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by 64powerglide »

Here is what Rafee does.
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acarlson
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by acarlson »

64powerglide wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:27 pm Here is what Rafee does: ... YouTube video...
Jeff, that's how I originally adjusted the valves/rockers. But after running the engine for an hour or so, I could hear what sounded like a clattering rocker. Just one. That's why I pulled the covers off and started checking lash and pre-load. But I ran into the problem described above - and that brought me here... :dontknow:

Alec
Alec Carlson
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by 64powerglide »

I would just hot adjust the one making noise. Some people say snug it up until it quits clicking then add 1/4 turn others say 1/2 turn. I did mine a half turn but they are old.
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terribleted
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by terribleted »

1/4 in from quiet is on the loose side, if preload is low faster wear can result . Most lifters will take 3/8 turn and be happy. Older deep cap lifters will take 1/2 turn or more, but, most shallower cap replacements will start to hold the valve open near 3/8 or just a bit more. I always try to get 3/8 turn in...if the engine starts to misfire the point of turn in just before this happens has always worked for me. I always find the lifter that takes the least turn in near 3/8 and adjust all lifters to this amount. If during your running adjustment the noise persists look for other issues such as a slightly bent push rod, worn rocker arm, faulty lifter or maybe a sticky valve or a loose valve (rocks sideways due to worn or incorrectly installed valve guide).
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acarlson
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by acarlson »

Thanks everyone. My question is not really about adjusting the lifters, but about the lack of lifter piston movement in #1 intake. I seems to me that I should be able to manually push the lifter piston into the lifter and compress the lifter spring. I can do that on other lifters. I can't on #1 intake. The movement of the lifter piston onto the lifter spring is what pre-load is all about IMHO. I'm just trying to understand if I have a lifter problem with #1 - or not...

Alec
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66corsaguy
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by 66corsaguy »

acarlson wrote:Thanks everyone. My question is not really about adjusting the lifters, but about the lack of lifter piston movement in #1 intake. I seems to me that I should be able to manually push the lifter piston into the lifter and compress the lifter spring. I can do that on other lifters. I can't on #1 intake. The movement of the lifter piston onto the lifter spring is what pre-load is all about IMHO. I'm just trying to understand if I have a lifter problem with #1 - or not...

Alec[/quote
Do you mean when you push push rod into lifter lifter does not move that small spring amount.?


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acarlson
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by acarlson »

66corsaguy wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:48 am
Alec
Do you mean when you push push rod into lifter lifter does not move that small spring amount.?


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Correct. The pushrod will not move.

Alec
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66corsaguy
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by 66corsaguy »

acarlson wrote:
66corsaguy wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:48 am
Alec
Do you mean when you push push rod into lifter lifter does not move that small spring amount.?


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Correct. The pushrod will not move.

Alec
When I cold adjusted my rockers I was in the last half of adjustment. Rotor pointing at 2 TDC and noticed that my pushrods would not spring into the lifter at 5 & 6. The other 4 did. I also was concerned when I first noticed on #5 but when I saw the same on #6 I figured there was an explanation for it and and it was normal.
So when I pushed the pushrod in and out it was just solid as a rock. No spring load like the other 4.

I would like to hear input from others if it's normal or not too.


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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by terribleted »

acarlson wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:50 am Thanks everyone. My question is not really about adjusting the lifters, but about the lack of lifter piston movement in #1 intake. I seems to me that I should be able to manually push the lifter piston into the lifter and compress the lifter spring. I can do that on other lifters. I can't on #1 intake. The movement of the lifter piston onto the lifter spring is what pre-load is all about IMHO. I'm just trying to understand if I have a lifter problem with #1 - or not...

Alec
This is a good question. I have wondered this myself over the years, but I think this is normal. I think that the lifter that does not manually push is completely full of oil and others that push a little are not. You can not really push in a lifter if it is totally full of oil. The real test is that IF the lifter does not push due to being stuck, broken or some other abnormality that when you turn in the rocker adjustment with the engine running, that the motor will quickly go to misfiring due to the valve being held open by this "solid Lifter".
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66corsaguy
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by 66corsaguy »

terribleted wrote:
acarlson wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:50 am Thanks everyone. My question is not really about adjusting the lifters, but about the lack of lifter piston movement in #1 intake. I seems to me that I should be able to manually push the lifter piston into the lifter and compress the lifter spring. I can do that on other lifters. I can't on #1 intake. The movement of the lifter piston onto the lifter spring is what pre-load is all about IMHO. I'm just trying to understand if I have a lifter problem with #1 - or not...

Alec
This is a good question. I have wondered this myself over the years, but I think this is normal. I think that the lifter that does not manually push is completely full of oil and others that push a little are not. You can not really push in a lifter if it is totally full of oil. The real test is that IF the lifter does not push due to being stuck, broken or some other abnormality that when you turn in the rocker adjustment with the engine running, that the motor will quickly go to misfiring due to the valve being held open by this "solid Lifter".
Would compression also be affected?


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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by terribleted »

If the valve is being held open yes. I really think that most times it is just an issue of the particular lifter being really pumped up when you try to manipulate it, and that function is actually normal. In other words once the engine is turning it does its thing and the plunger moves in and out a bit during operation as it should.
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acarlson
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by acarlson »

So, what I essentially have is a solid lifter which should revert to a spring operated hydraulic lifter when the engine is running.

Should I treat this lifter like all the others if I'm doing a static valve adjustment (0 lash + 1/4"->1/2" turn) ?

Alec
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by terribleted »

Yes, but, I really am a fan of engine running adjustment. I have always used static adjustment initially, but, have found that running adjustment is superior particularly with replacement lifters which often will not function well at higher lash adjustments over 3/8 turn from quiet and sometimes prefer a bit less than 3/8 (they do not seem to have as much adjustment range room as original deepdish lifters). As I stated above it is possible to have a faulty "stuck" lifter but any significant additional preload of such a lifter will cause misfire. Keep in mind that 3/8 turn in running would likely be the same as more than 3/8 turn adjustment static. Static adjustment is certainly questionable if the lifters are not fully primed from operation as well. Do yourself a favor and cut the center out of a valve cover to make a set of partial covers to contain oil and do a warm engine running adjustment. The lifters will be more evenly adjusted and you will be able to tell as you tighten when the lifter starts trying to hold the valve open as the engine will start to run rougher. Turning the adjuster tighter must be done slowly...if you do it fast the cylinder may misfire as the lifter lets oil out until it is no longer filled to the previous setting. Indeed if this happens while adjusting just wait a few second to see if it smoothes out. If not loosen till the roughness just stops or perhaps a touch more loose. I have found 3/8-7/16 or so turn in to be ideal for most motors I have worked on. I would not set more than 1/2 turn in even if the engine does not start to run rough at this adjustment.
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acarlson
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Re: Valve lifter question...

Post by acarlson »

terribleted wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:28 pm Yes, but, I really am a fan of engine running adjustment. I have always used static adjustment initially, but, have found that running adjustment is superior...
That was my plan - I've done this before. Problem is I loosened the rockers on the odd side and now I have to readjust them just to get the engine started. That adjustment process started this whole conversation about my #1 intake lifter issue when I discovered that the lifter had no preload available. I'll go with it in it's current state and double-check it after I run it for a few minutes. I'll let you know.

Alec
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