Checking wiring ignition to starter/battery/coil

[66corsaguy]

This is the beat I could find, if you don't hear a click when you turn the key you are not getting voltage to the solenoid. You can run a jumper wire from the positive side of the battery to the S terminal "purple wire" on the solenoid. Get a long wire with alligator clips & hook one end to the purple wire terminal & touch the positive post on the battery. That should kick in the starter, if it doesn't then you have to check the ignition switch. This video give you the basics of what is going on.

Ok so I just put key in start position used jumper and attached to purple wire prong than put other jumper cable on positive of battery and I heard nothing.
I didn't hear anything. If I've done it correctly I think that may lead me to solenoid dead?


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[bbodie52]

Ok so I just put key in start position used jumper and attached to purple wire prong than put other jumper cable on positive of battery and I heard nothing.
I didn't hear anything. If I've done it correctly I think that may lead me to solenoid dead?

it would not be necessary to put the key in the start position for this test. If you actually have voltage from the battery cable to the solenoid (which you should be able to measure with a multimeter between the battery cable and chassis ground), connecting that battery voltage to the "S" terminal should trigger the starter solenoid, activating the starter motor, and cranking the engine IF THE ENGINE IS PROPERLY GROUNDED!

I spent quite a bit of effort in my earlier post describing the need for a properly grounded engine that would be connected by a 6gauge cable directly to the negative terminal on the battery. I also mentioned verifying that the post and cable terminals were properly cleaned before they are attached to the battery. A fully charged battery that is connected by the positive cable to the starter solenoid and connected by the negative cable to the engine would essentially duplicate the bench check you said you performed earlier. Under these circumstances a jumper from the battery positive cable to the "S" terminal on the solenoid would engage the starter and cause it to crank the engine. If you said that this arrangement worked on earlier bench check, the same arrangement should work when the starter is bolted in place on the engine itself. But you must verify that the engine is properly grounded to the battery negative terminal. If it is not grounded, your test with a jumper from the positive cable to the "S" terminal (purple wire connector) would do nothing, because of a lack of a ground return path to the negative terminal on the battery.

Please check to confirm that your engine is connected (grounded) directly to the battery negative terminal, and that the terminals have been properly cleaned and are tight. Also check the voltage between the positive and negative terminals with a multimeter to check the charge condition of the battery. Let us know what you find.

[64powerglide]

Hook the black jumper cable to the starter housing & battery & try the positive jumper wire to the S "purple" contact again, that way you will know you have a ground. Don't worry about the key, you are bypassing the ignition switch. This is just to see if the starter works through the solenoid. If you still get nothing it's time to take the starter out again & open up the solenoid. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD GROUND.

[66corsaguy]

Ok so I just put key in start position used jumper and attached to purple wire prong than put other jumper cable on positive of battery and I heard nothing.
I didn't hear anything. If I've done it correctly I think that may lead me to solenoid dead?

it would not be necessary to put the key in the start position for this test. If you actually have voltage from the battery cable to the solenoid (which you should be able to measure with a multimeter between the battery cable and chassis ground), connecting that battery voltage to the "S" terminal should trigger the starter solenoid, activating the starter motor, and cranking the engine IF THE ENGINE IS PROPERLY GROUNDED!

I spent quite a bit of effort in my earlier post describing the need for a properly grounded engine that would be connected by a 6gauge cable directly to the negative terminal on the battery. I also mentioned verifying that the post and cable terminals were properly cleaned before they are attached to the battery. A fully charged battery that is connected by the positive cable to the starter solenoid and connected by the negative cable to the engine would essentially duplicate the bench check you said you performed earlier. Under these circumstances a jumper from the battery positive cable to the "S" terminal on the solenoid would engage the starter and cause it to crank the engine. If you said that this arrangement worked on earlier bench check, the same arrangement should work when the starter is bolted in place on the engine itself. But you must verify that the engine is properly grounded to the battery negative terminal. If it is not grounded, your test with a jumper from the positive cable to the "S" terminal (purple wire connector) would do nothing, because of a lack of a ground return path to the negative terminal on the battery.

Please check to confirm that your engine is connected (grounded) directly to the battery negative terminal, and that the terminals have been properly cleaned and are tight. Also check the voltage between the positive and negative terminals with a multimeter to check the charge condition of the battery. Let us know what you find.

I will try again[emoji3]
I read your post yesterday and went thru step by step again and added photos of all my grounds I do believe everything is correct including cleaned battery posts and changed terminals and checking battery voltage.

I will do the solenoid test again as well as the starter test and hopefully this leads me to the answer. I do think we're getting closer without throwing a Ton of money on parts I'm not sure about so i do appreciate the help!!!


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[66corsaguy]

Hook the black jumper cable to the starter housing & battery & try the positive jumper wire to the S "purple" contact again, that way you will know you have a ground. Don't worry about the key, you are bypassing the ignition switch. This is just to see if the starter works through the solenoid. If you still get nothing it's time to take the starter out again & open up the solenoid. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD GROUND.

Will do on Sunday [emoji3]


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[terribleted]

Checking the voltage of the battery is not a definitive test. You really need to load test it. I would carry it to a parts store after letting it rest a couple hours after an overnight trickle charge and have them load test it. Batteries can fail internally where they do not deliver proper voltage under load. They may read 12-13V sitting there but when a load ( like the load of a starter) is applied they drop out to under 10V indicating one or more bad cell.

[66corsaguy]

Checking the voltage of the battery is not a definitive test. You really need to load test it. I would carry it to a parts store after letting it rest a couple hours after an overnight trickle charge and have them load test it. Batteries can fail internally where they do not deliver proper voltage under load. They may read 12-13V sitting there but when a load ( like the load of a starter) is applied they drop out to under 10V indicating one or more bad cell.

Ok I am going to test the solenoid and see about that and than get the battery checked again. I did have it tested last week

Can I pull the battery from my van or from my other car and swap them to test?


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[66CorsaConv]

I just pulled my 66 Corsa starter for a different issue. I have not read all of this thread so please excuse me if I cover old ground.

When you "bench tested" the starter, did you put 12V straight to the solenoid output into the motor windings? Or did you hook it up like normal to the large top 12V positive terminal on the solenoid and then apply 12V to where the Purple wire attaches?

The Purple wire is the solenoid coil winding. Inside the solenoid is a large washer like contact. When the solenoid pulls in far enough, the washer completes the circuit between the two LARGE terminals on the solenoid.

[terribleted]

Checking the voltage of the battery is not a definitive test. You really need to load test it. I would carry it to a parts store after letting it rest a couple hours after an overnight trickle charge and have them load test it. Batteries can fail internally where they do not deliver proper voltage under load. They may read 12-13V sitting there but when a load ( like the load of a starter) is applied they drop out to under 10V indicating one or more bad cell.

Ok I am going to test the solenoid and see about that and than get the battery checked again. I did have it tested last week

Can I pull the battery from my van or from my other car and swap them to test?


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You can sub any other 12V battery if you suspect a battery issue. If the Vair's battery was load tested a week ago and it was ok, it is likely fine as long as it is fully charged.

[66corsaguy]

OH GRAND SHES RUNNING!!!! I cannot express how amazing it feels to hear her roar to life!!!!
I checked solenoid with 64powerglide notes and still nothing so I replaced solenoid. (I just grabbed one from auto parts store because I could get it today although I do try to support corvair specific suppliers as much as possible.)
I put it on and still nothing. Testing it with jumpers again and nothing. I figured since I had jumpers half installed might as well try a jump from my van and that's when SHE ROARED TO LIFE!
So Shit is it solenoid or battery?
Sure auto parts said battery was good but TERRIBLETED I think you are on to something and I have read discussion after discussion about batteries testing "good" and they truly are not good.

I'm leaving jumpers on and see if I can charge this battery if it holds we will see and if not I guess I need a new battery also.

I do think it was my solenoid though because THREE TIMES it was not affected and I'm really good at following instructions!

We will see over the next couple of days how things go and I don't want to count my chickens yet but THANK ALL OF YOU IN THIS FORUM Brad too for taking so much time explaining proper ground!! Even if the advice was not a resolution to my problem this experience over the last two weeks has taught me a lot of different things about other areas of my car. And most importantly don't just buy parts!! Test test test!!

If I can repay any of you at all with anything please let me know! I am owner of a furniture finishing business here in San Francisco ( www.gritsf.com ) and I am always giving advice and technique information for furniture stuff. Kind of like you all with car stuff... PM me I'm always available to give my expertise of almost 20 years!
Ta-dah!!! [emoji106][emoji573][emoji1009] it's not magic it's mechanics!!!!!

Thank you thank you and i hope to stay off the forum with questions for a little while!!!

Last question. Is it possible I shorted my solenoid with improper technique? I have heard pulling center high tension wire from coil can affect other systems?


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[terribleted]

Re pay hmmm....how do you send a 6 pack thru the internet:) Glad to hear it runs...now for the final tuning!!

[64powerglide]

Just knowing you got it running is is all the payback we need, another Corvair ready for the road!!!!!!

[66corsaguy]

Just knowing you got it running is is all the payback we need, another Corvair ready for the road!!!!!!

I can't even express how much joy I felt when I heard her start!!!!




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[66corsaguy]

I just pulled my 66 Corsa starter for a different issue. I have not read all of this thread so please excuse me if I cover old ground.

When you "bench tested" the starter, did you put 12V straight to the solenoid output into the motor windings? Or did you hook it up like normal to the large top 12V positive terminal on the solenoid and then apply 12V to where the Purple wire attaches?

The Purple wire is the solenoid coil winding. Inside the solenoid is a large washer like contact. When the solenoid pulls in far enough, the washer completes the circuit between the two LARGE terminals on the solenoid.

Solenoid problem!!! Swapped and now she goes. I had only tested starter didn't isolate solenoid.


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[bbodie52]

...The Purple wire is the solenoid coil winding. Inside the solenoid is a large washer like contact. When the solenoid pulls in far enough, the washer completes the circuit between the two LARGE terminals on the solenoid.

1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Harness Starter Connections.jpg (80.88 KiB) Viewed 1458 times

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS

viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

[66CorsaConv]

Cool animation Brad. When I was 14 my dad gave me the 1964 Convertible with Powerglide. He said "if you can make it run, it's yours".

I had that starter on and off about a dozen times over the next several months. That part taught me plenty about electro\mechanical devices.

Went on to be an Electrical Engineer.