Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

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65monzaragtop
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Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by 65monzaragtop »

Picked up a 63 Monza coupe the other day that has been in a barn since 1973. After spending half the day cleaning it up to see what I have it's actually not as bad as I thought. My question is what is a good process to see if the engine is salvageable. It has oil on the dipstick and actually looks pretty clean. I hooked a battery up and the dash lights, windshield wipers and tail lights all work. So any thoughts on a good logical process I could do to see if I can get it running would be appreciated.
Jerry Whitt
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by Jerry Whitt »

Start with an oil change and new oil filter. Then, remove the distributor, and find or make a tool to reach down to the oil pump, and use a drill motor
to turn the oil pump shaft until there is oil pressure. If you leave the key in the on position, the oil light will go out when pressure hits the oil pressure switch.

Then crank the engine around some with the starter motor. If the engine seems to spin ok, install the distributor. Now you can use a very small tube to push through the upper bowl gasket in each carburetor. Through the tube fill up the carburetor bowls.

Now crank and the engine should start.
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bbodie52
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by bbodie52 »

Read the following...

Removing your car from storage/Reviving a Dead Corvair
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=5030
Brad Bodie
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lostboy
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by lostboy »

The oil pump idea is good. I didn't even do that.

I always remove the spark plugs and pour some mystery oil or even just regular engine oil in the holes then turn the engine by hand a full revolution.


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1961 Corvair 700 Sedan (80hp 3spd Gasoline Heat)
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by terribleted »

Turn the engine at least 2 revolutions by wrench to make sure nothing is jammed or stuck before trying the starter. I would add DO NOT try to run it from the fuel tank which after sitting so long will need to be emptied , inspected and re-filled at least....try any operation from a fuel can with fresh fuel in it.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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dave t
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by dave t »

Minimum
Clean fuel system
Rebuild carbs
Change oil
Rebuild brake system

I like to open up both ends of the fuel and brake lines. Spray a bunch of brake cleaner in one end and blow it out with compressed air. Have someone hold a clean rag at the other end to see what comes out. Continue until the rag stays clean.

Replace all rubber in the fuel and brake systems.

Just my 2 cents worth

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65monzaragtop
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by 65monzaragtop »

I removed the carbs(they were nasty!), fuel lines, top engine cover and linkages to see how badly packed with debri the cooling fins were the other day. Wasn't real bad vacuumed them off and blew them out with air nozzle. The plugs didn't want to come out so I soaked them with penetrating oil but ultimately decided to heat up the cylinders around the plugs with a torch to aid with the removal. That worked great and I got them all out without damaging any threads. I then tried to turn the engine with a wrench and it moved easily so I put some oil into the cylinders and let it soak for a couple hours. Came back and rotated the engine thru 6 revolutions with no issues at all. So I ordered carb kits, plugs, wires, tune up kit etc to see if I can get her runnning. Couple questions though. I removed the fuel pump, distributor, and generator adopter just to aid in cleaning things. Do they make a overhaul kit for the fuel pump? The diaphrams don't look bad but they have to be after sitting so long I would think. Next there is not a generator on this engine but could you use the adaptor off a newer engine and then use an altenater instead. I have access to some corvairs in a salvage yard where I could get either one. Lastly I drained engine oil and transmission oil(its a3 speed I think) where do you refill the trans and how much does it take. So hopefully I'll be able to try and fire her up next week when I get all the parts in. If anyone has any further suggestions feel free to let me know and thanks so much to everyone who has commented so far its really helped alot.
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66corsaguy
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Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by 66corsaguy »




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bbodie52
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by bbodie52 »

Yes, you can easily change the oil filter adapter to the type used for mounting an alternator in place of the generator.
Alternator mount (shown on the left) vs. Generator mount on right
Alternator mount (shown on the left) vs. Generator mount on right
I have prepared a series of wiring schematics for a number of Corvair model years. All of these wiring diagrams can be viewed using the following link. Each diagram displayed can be enlarged by clicking on the image once or twice (to obtain maximum enlargement). I have added modified wiring diagrams for a number of early model year Corvairs to illustrate the correct wiring needed to substitute an alternator and an alternator voltage regulator for the original generator and generator voltage regulator in the early Corvairs. These diagrams should be useful to you if you intend to substitute an original Corvair alternator/voltage regulator for the generator system. An alternate approach is to adapt a later design GM alternator that has an internal voltage regulator, instead of the external regulator that was originally used in Corvairs. The process requires a partial disassembly of the newer alternator, and transferring a portion of the older alternator housing, pulley, and reverse rotation cooling fan to match the needs of the reverse rotation Corvair engine.

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

There are no fuel pump rebuild kits currently available. However, if your old pump was functioning properly, they tend to be pretty sturdy and will last a long time. In fact, the original pumps sometimes do better than the aftermarket replacement pumps — some of which were somewhat poor quality.

The thing that is important for the mechanical fuel pumps is a good leakfree fuel line between the fuel tank and the pump inlet. There are a couple of short lengths of rubber fuel hose in the path between the fuel tank and the engine compartment. This side is not under pressure, so decayed rubber fuel lines that may be cracked or poorly sealed may not be obvious. A leak in this area though can introduce a vacuum leak that will prevent the mechanical fuel pump from drawing fuel all away from the fuel tank to the engine compartment. You may want to inspect the short rubber hose at the gas tank and the other one near the starter motor and replace them if they appear to be brittle or cracked. Good quality hose clamps should also be used. The mechanical fuel pump can be easily misdiagnosed as defective if it fails to provide adequate fuel volume to the carburetors. The problem is often a leak in the fuel line between the tank and the pump, which prevents the pump from being able to draw fuel the length of the car.

BE SURE TO ONLY FILL YOUR DIFFERENTIAL AND MANUAL TRANSMISSION WITH GL-4 GEAR LUBE. GL-5 gear lube will damage the "yellow metal" components in your manual transmission. The Corvair transaxle shares gear oil between the manual transmission and the differential, so the gear lube must be GL-4 in both.

ImageImage

The specification section of the shop manual supplement (attached) indicates a rear axle lubricant capacity of 3.1 pints in 1962 models, and 4.5 pints in 1963 models. The same section indicates that the manual three speed transmission has a capacity of 3 pints, and the four speed transmission has a capacity of 3.75 pints. Since the fluid is shared between the transmission and differential, it is important to utilize GL-4 gear lube in both the transmission and the differential. There is a fill plug on the side of the differential and another one on the side of the transmission. Both should be filled to bring the fluid level up to the bottom of the threads before reinstalling each fill plug.
Attachments
1962-1963 Supplement - Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 2 - General Lubrication.pdf
1962-1963 Supplement - Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 2 - General Lubrication
(161.33 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
1962-1963 Supplement - Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 12 - Specifications.pdf
1962-1963 Supplement - Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 12 - Specifications
(626.09 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
Brad Bodie
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dave t
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by dave t »

To test the pump, Take the pump in your hand and seal the in and out ports with your fingers. Push the lower pin of the pump against the work bench quickly. You should feel pressure and suction on the ports with your fingers.
I like to use E85 compatible fuel hose between the tank and body line, body line and fuel pump inlet line in the event I have to use E85 or simular alcohol laced fuel.

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dave t
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by dave t »

You can get gear oil in a tall bottle. They make a hand pump that replaces the bottle cap. Fill the trans at the side level check bolt in the trans. Fill until the oil overflows from the hole. The trans and diff share oil but it does not always flow from the trans to diff quickly. If the trans was empty when I refill it, I like to run around the block in the car and re-check the oil. If the car is on jackstands, wait until the engine is running and put it in gear with the engine idling. Go through the gears then check the trans oil again. Be careful. The tires will spin. Be sure the car is secure on the jackstands first.


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65monzaragtop
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by 65monzaragtop »

Well it's been awhile since I posted and have a few updates. So I have overhauled the carbs, distributor and cleaned all the debri top and bottom around the jugs. Glad I removed the bottom shrouds they were caked full of dirt and mice nests. The thermostats look OK but have yet to reinstall them to see for sure. I just cleaned them up really good. Replaced the coil, spark plugs, plug wires, dist cap, points, condensor, fuel pump, battery cables and put a used starter in. The one that was in it was shot but the car came with 3 extra starters. Combined parts from 2 to make 1 good one. I put an altenator on it but have not yet converted the wiring. Changed all the fluids and put on a new belt. Of course the belt was the last thing I went to install and noticed I didn't have room to get the belt by the oil filter housing. As I was pondering this dilemma I noticed that where a bolt went thru the I think the rear engine housing that the housing is broken there. Would that cause the rear of engine to sag and thus not have room to slip the belt by the filter housing? So I just removed the housing and fed the belt around the crank pulley and hooked everything up. I then noticed that the belt was tight and I could not adjust idler pulley but the belt was not rubbing on anything. So I just left it I really just wanted to see if this would fire up. I rigged up a gas line from the fuel pump to a gas can and after some last minute checks away we went. After cranking on it for a bit it fired up once I held the throttle open about a quarter way. It didn't sound to bad other than it was backfiring out of the drivers side carb and it wont idle yet. Boy did it put out the smoke initially guess I had plenty of oil down the cylinders. 😂 of course I then had to leave for work and haven't had a chance to get back and check things over and do some adjustments on it. But overall I'm really happy with my progress. This car has been in a barn since 1973 and that was the last time it ran. So thanks for all your help so far and if you have any suggestions on how to go about fine tuning it let me know. I ordered a shop book for the car so hopefully it's there when I get home this weekend. Everything I've done so far I have learned off of this site and Clarke corvairs website. You guys are awesome! I have a video of it running not sure how to upload it to this forum. Well until the next update thanks again.
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terribleted
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by terribleted »

Post a pic of your clearance issue at I am assuming the oil filter adapter housing and the rear crossmember. Lack of clearance in this area is usually due to incorrect transmission mounting crossmember, bad powertrain mounts, or bent rear crossmember from previous rear end collision. When all is right there should be enough space to pass the belt through this area (not massive space but space).

Another thought on lack of clearance for the belt. Is the car a 4 speed? If it is look and see if there is clearance between the front top of the transmission and the rear suspension crossmember. The rear suspension crossmember is different for early model 4 speed cars (notched out to provide clearance for the longer 4spd trans). I have come across a number of cars where someone has swapped in a 4spd and forced the transaxle back into place without modifying the suspension crossmember. This results in contact between the front top of the trans and suspension crossmember as well as the powertrain being forced back so there is no clearance to change the belt.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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triumphcorvair
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by triumphcorvair »

This has been a good thread for me. It's been a while (several years) since I've turned my engine over by hand so I'm having a hard time remembering which direction to turn it with a wrench, clockwise or counter clockwise?

What should the HB be torqued to?
Darrell McCracken
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bbodie52
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by bbodie52 »

The timing scale is marked Before Top Dead Center (BTDC), so for a timing setting of 16 degrees BTDC, the mark would be placed to the right of zero. To decrease the timing setting to zero, the crankshaft pulley or harmonic balancer would have to be turned Counter Clockwise (CCW). That is the direction of engine rotation.

Image

Image
Harmonic Balancer.jpg
Harmonic Balancer.jpg (26.61 KiB) Viewed 1554 times
The 1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual Specifications section (attached) provides the torque specifications for the crankshaft pulley or harmonic balancer ass 40-50 ft. lbs...
Harmonic Balancer Torque Specs.jpg
Attachments
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION - SPECIFICATIONS.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION - SPECIFICATIONS
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Brad Bodie
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Re: Starting a engine that has sat for a long time

Post by triumphcorvair »

Thanks Brad! I didn't mean to post this twice.
Darrell McCracken
Huntsville, Texas
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