Engine won't start

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66corsaguy
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Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:47 pm

66corsa
Ok so I have been trying to adjust valves. I did cold valve adjust because I can not hear the tapping with the loud muffler. So after adjusting-motor won't turn over now. So I was thinking I over tightened the valves. I've gone thru a number of times and still getting the same response
Before I go into detail please answer me this dumb question! I removed the dash cluster because I want to put a new speedo cable in and because seeing things real life (wiring) explains a lot rather than just reading the manual
Thinking possibly I pulled a wire that is making car not start but that seems like not the reason. I checked ignition switch wires under dash and seems ok.
Will the car not start if the dash cluster is not hooked up? I hooked it back in temporarily but the temperature wire back in and the wire harness but I just feel like an idiot and wasting a lot of time checking my work on everything and not knowing what to look for

Adjusting valves cold. I set to TDC 0 with rotor pointing to 1 spark plug. I go thru the exhaust and intake valves specified in the shop manual. Than turn engine rotor pointing to 2 and set all the others specified.
I am feeling the rocking chair movement and when it doesn't rock anymore I adjust another 1/2 turn. I went a full turn like the book said but I am now backing off
Maybe I am not finding zero lash correctly or the dash cluster has to be put back together? I heard that the threads should read the same in each side and that's not what I am seeing.

It feels like it's not getting a spark. The motor is turning and I have juice but no actual fire to start up. So now I can't adjust the valves warm ! I have gas! I have the new crane EI. I had the pertronix as of yesterday and it was the same no fire

Any suggestions?




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thewolfe
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by thewolfe » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:17 pm

Dash cluster does not need to be in the car for it to start. I suspect something went wrong with your valve adjustment if it started fine before and now isn't after the adjustment. I go between 1/2 and 3/4 turn after 0 lash. Did you install the crane unit at the same time? If so I would check to make sure you have spark first then try adjusting valves again. Yes the threads should all be about the same. When I check for 0 lash I am turning the push rod with one hand while tightening the valve with the other. You will feel just as the push rod has some resistance to turning - you are at 0 lash. Not to the point where you can't spin the pushrod but when you feel some resistance.
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acarlson
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by acarlson » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:36 pm

The rotor pointing to spark plug 1 does not guarantee you're at TDC on the compression stroke on #1 cylinder. If you watch the lifters while you turn the crank observe when the intake on #1 closes then turn till you get the timing mark to 0. When you're done with all the valves specified in the shop manual, rotate the crank 360 degrees and adjust the remaining valves. I wouldn't use the distributor rotor position as a TDC indicator.

I put a .003 feeler gauge between the rocker arm and the valve stem and tighten the nut till the feeler gauge has some resistance moving. Then tighten the nut an additional 1/2 to 3/4 turn. That'll get you started and you can do the final adjustment with the engine running.

Make sure the pushrod is seated in the lifter. It is possible for it to hang up on the lifter lip which would screw up your adjustment.

Alec
Last edited by acarlson on Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by terribleted » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:39 pm

He states Pertronics had no fire and now Crane has no fire. Turn ignition switch to run and test for voltage at the positive side of the coil. The normally yellow or yellow/black wire there should be delivering at least 6 volts to the + of the coil. If there is power at the coil then take off the center distributor wire at the distributor cap and rest it its hole so the contacts in the cap and on the wire are close to each other but not touching. Crank the engine. You should observe sparks from the wire to the cap. If no spark check distributor/ ignition unit wiring. A failed coil could also be an issue.
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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:39 pm

thewolfe wrote:Dash cluster does not need to be in the car for it to start. I suspect something went wrong with your valve adjustment if it started fine before and now isn't after the adjustment. I go between 1/2 and 3/4 turn after 0 lash. Did you install the crane unit at the same time? If so I would check to make sure you have spark first then try adjusting valves again. Yes the threads should all be about the same. When I check for 0 lash I am turning the push rod with one hand while tightening the valve with the other. You will feel just as the push rod has some resistance to turning - you are at 0 lash. Not to the point where you can't spin the pushrod but when you feel some resistance.
Ok that's for answering cluster question l. Although a silly quest I just wanted to make sure

My gut is the valves are too tight.
I'm going to try again with the 0 lash it's a tricky spot to find but what you are saying makes sense.

I'm also getting battery charged to make sure that's not an issue also. I will check for spark after I get it back this evening


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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by terribleted » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:41 pm

Valves too tight will not close, will make low or no compression, and starting could be an issue. Could also bend a valve or pushrod if way too tight. Make sure there is spark as without it any other troubleshooting is kinda useless.
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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:00 pm

terribleted wrote:Valves too tight will not close, will make low or no compression, and starting could be an issue. Could also bend a valve or pushrod if way too tight. Make sure there is spark as without it any other troubleshooting is kinda useless.
Can I check for spark without cranking the engine. It sounds so bad I am afraid if it's something else I'm killing the internals.

I backed all the valves bolts off... Just did half a turn after I start to feel slight resistance on push rod. Maybe I don't have coil/crane EI set up right.


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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by terribleted » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:11 pm

The lifters would have to be way over adjusted tight to cause bending. If you have cranked it over already since your last adjustment any damage that would be done is done already as bending only happens when cranking if things are so tight that the lifter bottoms causing bent pushrod since the space for it is too short. If you are really worried about it you can back off the lifter adjustments some before you crank for spark.
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acarlson
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by acarlson » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:55 am

The XR-700 has an LED which lights when the plug fires. You can do a visual check for spark just by looking at the LED. You can also remove the dizzy cap, turn the crank till you get something like 40 BTDC on #1 compression stroke then rotate slowly till the LED lights up and see where the rotor is positioned. If it's not near the #1 plug you've got an ignition problem.

I assume you have been rotating the crank by hand counter clockwise when you're making your ignition and valve adjustments.
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 64powerglide » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:46 am

Watch this video.
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rfw66
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Engine won't start

Unread post by rfw66 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:49 am

I may have missed it but once you have adjusted #1 and the corresponding valves as shown in the 65 shop manual (3 intake , 5 exhaust. then on the driver side, 4 exhaust and 6 intake), make sure that you are turning the crank counter clockwise to take #2 to TDC!
If you simply turn the crank 360 clockwise you will not be in the correct position to adjust the remaining valves.
Just a thought.


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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:42 pm

acarlson wrote:The XR-700 has an LED which lights when the plug fires. You can do a visual check for spark just by looking at the LED. You can also remove the dizzy cap, turn the crank till you get something like 40 BTDC on #1 compression stroke then rotate slowly till the LED lights up and see where the rotor is positioned. If it's not near the #1 plug you've got an ignition problem.

I assume you have been rotating the crank by hand counter clockwise when you're making your ignition and valve adjustments.
I've got juice to module. Checked by tapping grey and white wire and module light came on. First sigh of relief.
Did what you said. I have the light on and rotor is pointing to 1
I adjusted the LED per instructions so I think it's correct spot also.

I have been rotating crank by hand and always counter clockwise.

At this point when I try to start it cranks even less.

So I've got spark
I'm going to adjust rockers AGAIN and make sure I'm TDC on intake and not exhaust. Who knows maybe they were way too tight and I've bent everything.

If that's the case I will overhaul this motor with high end components and make it bullet proof and educate myself in the process!



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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:44 pm

rfw66 wrote:I may have missed it but once you have adjusted #1 and the corresponding valves as shown in the 65 shop manual (3 intake , 5 exhaust. then on the driver side, 4 exhaust and 6 intake), make sure that you are turning the crank counter clockwise to take #2 to TDC!
If you simply turn the crank 360 clockwise you will not be in the correct position to adjust the remaining valves.
Just a thought.


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Yes. I have been counter clockwise and looking at rotor but I'm thinking I'm probably on exhaust at least one of those times!! I just rotated until I was up at two but I guess I need to rotate twice and make sure I am starting at intake on 1 to begin with. Oi.


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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:45 pm

I mean compression stroke. Not intake.


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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:46 pm

acarlson wrote:The rotor pointing to spark plug 1 does not guarantee you're at TDC on the compression stroke on #1 cylinder. If you watch the lifters while you turn the crank observe when the intake on #1 closes then turn till you get the timing mark to 0. When you're done with all the valves specified in the shop manual, rotate the crank 360 degrees and adjust the remaining valves. I wouldn't use the distributor rotor position as a TDC indicator.

I put a .003 feeler gauge between the rocker arm and the valve stem and tighten the nut till the feeler gauge has some resistance moving. Then tighten the nut an additional 1/2 to 3/4 turn. That'll get you started and you can do the final adjustment with the engine running.

Make sure the pushrod is seated in the lifter. It is possible for it to hang up on the lifter lip which would screw up your adjustment.

Alec
In going to try this again with feeler gauge and make sure I'm on compression stroke. Thanks


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66corsaguy
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Re: Engine won't start

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:37 pm

Still the same. I guess I will pull all the push rods and check for bends.

Could valve stem bends

In retrospect I definitely made them all too tight.

It sounds like it's "jammed"


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