New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

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Nate-M
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New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by Nate-M »

Greetings all!

I'm in the process of buying a 1966 Chevy Corvair 500 (4 door, hardtop) with the 110 hp engine and automatic transmission. I love the car and how unique it is, but I'd like to know more about increasing its performance, as 110 hp seems a little low for today's standards.

It started out when I was looking at average power-to-weight ratios for different cars. Because of the Corvair's relatively low weight, it seems as though 110 hp isn't too bad performance-wise. I currently drive a 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS that has a P/W ratio of 5.58 (168 hp/3,010 lb), and my wife drives a 2006 Honda Civic LX that has a P/W ratio of 5.09 (140 hp/2,751 lb), so I'd be happy with performance in this range, as the Corvair is going to be my daily driver. Currently, the Corvair would have a P/W ratio of only 4.50 (110 hp/2,445 lb).

What I'm looking to do is at some point buy 140 hp heads, and then maybe update to some kind of fuel injection. The heads will obviously increase the hp, but I'm wondering if fuel injection will do much to increase hp or mostly just fuel economy? What other improvements could be made to the Corvair engine to increase hp? If not much is to be gained would it be possible to swap the engine for another air-cooled one? I've seen some VW Beetle engine kits that go up to 220 hp but it's not cheap, though there are conversion kits so I assume it wouldn't be terribly difficult? Like I said, I like that the Corvair is unique, and I'd like to keep it that way, so I'd rather not swap to a water-cooled engine or anything like that. Also, since this will be a daily driver, I don't want to mess with a turbo, since I've heard they can be touchy. Clark's says that "Today you can easily build a durable street or offroad engine with 140-200+hp," under their Performance Engines section, so would it just take using high performance components?

I know this is long, so the TL;DR version is:
I'd like to up the power of my Corvair to the 120-140 hp range minimum, or ,if possible, to around 200 maximum. What are the best options to do this, considering I have relatively good mechanical knowledge, I've got a decent amount to spend, and I'm not short on time to work on it. Prices, difficulty, time required, and links to parts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
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lostboy
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by lostboy »

Nate-M wrote:Greetings all!

I'm in the process of buying a 1966 Chevy Corvair 500 (4 door, hardtop) with the 110 hp engine and automatic transmission. I love the car and how unique it is, but I'd like to know more about increasing its performance, as 110 hp seems a little low for today's standards.

It started out when I was looking at average power-to-weight ratios for different cars. Because of the Corvair's relatively low weight, it seems as though 110 hp isn't too bad performance-wise. I currently drive a 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS that has a P/W ratio of 5.58 (168 hp/3,010 lb), and my wife drives a 2006 Honda Civic LX that has a P/W ratio of 5.09 (140 hp/2,751 lb), so I'd be happy with performance in this range, as the Corvair is going to be my daily driver. Currently, the Corvair would have a P/W ratio of only 4.50 (110 hp/2,445 lb).

What I'm looking to do is at some point buy 140 hp heads, and then maybe update to some kind of fuel injection. The heads will obviously increase the hp, but I'm wondering if fuel injection will do much to increase hp or mostly just fuel economy? What other improvements could be made to the Corvair engine to increase hp? If not much is to be gained would it be possible to swap the engine for another air-cooled one? I've seen some VW Beetle engine kits that go up to 220 hp but it's not cheap, though there are conversion kits so I assume it wouldn't be terribly difficult? Like I said, I like that the Corvair is unique, and I'd like to keep it that way, so I'd rather not swap to a water-cooled engine or anything like that. Also, since this will be a daily driver, I don't want to mess with a turbo, since I've heard they can be touchy. Clark's says that "Today you can easily build a durable street or offroad engine with 140-200+hp," under their Performance Engines section, so would it just take using high performance components?

I know this is long, so the TL;DR version is:
I'd like to up the power of my Corvair to the 120-140 hp range minimum, or ,if possible, to around 200 maximum. What are the best options to do this, considering I have relatively good mechanical knowledge, I've got a decent amount to spend, and I'm not short on time to work on it. Prices, difficulty, time required, and links to parts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
The short answer is "build an engine".

I'll let someone else elaborate.


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1961 Corvair 700 Sedan (80hp 3spd Gasoline Heat)
Jerry Whitt
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by Jerry Whitt »

Add 140 heads, add 2 secondary carburetors and a performance cam. Put an electric fuel pump near the tank.

Clark's ls one of the good suppliers


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perfectreign
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by perfectreign »

I've read about v8 conversions

http://www.v8registry.com/bill-bertrams-v6-coupe.html




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notched
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by notched »

Even the most highly built naturally aspirated examples run 14 second 1/4 mile times. Kevin Wilsons car which had some weight removed was a 3.1 liter big bore, triported 140 heads with Weber 3 barrels, large cam, headers, etc. Basically everything you could throw at it and it ran 14.60's. That set up with the Webers would be close to $10 grand.
If you want to go faster you would have to build a purpose built turbocharged engine. Get ready to spend some money!
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notched
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by notched »

Also the fuel injection does not add power but it does make tuning easier.
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lostboy
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New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by lostboy »

I would go ahead and find yourself a Honda h23 and get to converting that to work with the corvair transaxle. If you're not a purist, that's the cheapest and easiest way to go. Bone stock 160hp with torque to match. You could even get it to run twin webers and maybe bump those numbers up.

I should add, this is something I've wanted to try. Specifically h23 twin webers. House everything in the rear, including a civic radiator.


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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by gnrand »

I guess you can add a 50 hp nitrous shot providing you do it very carefully and retard the timing. It is cheap and might satisfy your need for speed at a low cost. It would be nice if you had a 140 engine that has a nitrated crank. I am sure others will chime in with suggestions. I personally like turbo charging but you need a big budget.
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by thewolfe »

Don't be afraid of a turbo! The whole 'touchy' aspect of turbo corvairs is a myth perpetuated by those who have either never owned one, heard from someone else that they are touchy, or lack the mechanical abilities to work on a car. Compared to any modern engine, a corvair turbo engine is very basic and simple. A lot of people have issues with the carter yh carburetor. They are simple carburetors though and easy to rebuild but if you are building a performance turbo engine the yh will be the first thing to go as it is a major restriction. A turbo that has been gone through and set up correctly will last a lot of miles without any troubles. The only thing about turbo engines is the cost for all the turbo bits will be higher than building a 140. Any performance engine is going to cost $$ though. No way around that.
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by terribleted »

If you want a more powerful sporty driving experience the first thing I would do is nix the 2 speed automatic and install a 4 speed trans. I love automatic 95 and 110HP Corvairs...they are near bullet proof. They are adequate in power but performance not so much. I had a 140 Automatic car for a bit and have driven several and have never been excited by the performance gain over the 110 particularly considering complexity, cost, and durability. (140HP engines are not as durable as the 110 HP version (statement mostly based on 140 engines drop valve seats at a much higher frequency than 110HP engines) With a 4 speed trans you can much better utilize the available power...even a 110HP car can be pretty strong.
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bbodie52
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by bbodie52 »

Nate-M wrote:Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:57 pm

Greetings all!

I'm in the process of buying a 1966 Chevy Corvair 500 (4 door, hardtop) with the 110 hp engine and automatic transmission. I love the car and how unique it is, but I'd like to know more about increasing its performance, as 110 hp seems a little low for today's standards.
:evil: If I may play the devil's advocate for the purpose of this discussion, let me ask a few questions.
  • Is this your first Corvair?
  • Have you ever driven this Corvair, or driven that any significant distance — long enough to get the feel for it under a range of driving conditions on the open highway?
  • Have you ever driven a Corvair with a similar engine (110 hp) and a manual four speed transmission?
  • Are you looking to build a Corvair to be used in racing, some form of competition, or do you want a car that has good drivability and reliability as a regular form of transportation on the street?
Your opening question seems to place a lot of importance on the horsepower number. You are comparing a 51-year-old "economy car" with a two speed Powerglide automatic transmission against "today's standards". If you're concerned about driving a car that meets "today's standard", why are you buying a classic car that was built over one half-century ago?

The truth is, most people who purchase a classic Corvair do so because they want something that is unique and generally won't be found on any driveway in your neighborhood. You want something special! You are buying a four-door sedan with an air cooled 110 hp engine and automatic transmission — this is hardly the basis for a race car!

The late-model Corvair four-door sedan shares the same suspension, brakes, and handling characteristics that you would find in the two door coupe or convertible. It has much the same style and sporty characteristics of the other versions of the late-model Corvair (1965-1969). The front suspension is essentially the same in all Corvairs from 1960 to 1969. There are some variations in spring rates and a front stabilizer bar became standard equipment in 1964. The 1965 and later Corvairs were fitted with drum brakes that were larger than the brakes on the earlier Corvairs. In fact, the late-model Corvair brakes were designed for GM cars that were generally more than a thousand pounds heavier than the Corvair. The rear engine weight bias in the Corvair also works in your favor by helping to get better breaking traction on all four wheels.
Corvair Brakes.

A Corvair has an advantage over a front engine car under braking. Since the weight bias is to the rear, the car is much less nose heavy under braking, so it makes use of all four tires when stopping. Early model Corvairs had adequate, though not spectacular, brakes and the rear weight bias helped the car use all four when braking. Late models used GM intermediate platform (Chevelle, Tempest, etc.) brakes which performed very well on the 1000 pound lighter Corvair. FCs use full size Chevy brakes and they too work quite well on the lighter Corvair trucks.

Tires Affect Brakes.

Corvair brakes still perform just as well as they did over 40 years ago. What's different are the tires. Many folks forget that in terms of actual stopping distance the only way to improve the performance of a car that can lock up the wheels is to get better tires. These tires then are capable of more torque which translates to more heat in the brakes.

Fortunately, all is not lost. There have been advances in brake technology over the years, and many of these advances work very well on Corvairs.
:link: http://autoxer.skiblack.com/brakes.html

The rear suspension on late-model Corvairs was a design copy from the Corvette design in the mid-1960s. Overall, all late-model Corvairs have a significant design advantage over many other cars from that same period. Tires, however, have improved significantly from the designs that were originally fitted to the 1960s vintage Corvair. The improved traction and stability found in modern radial tires in 14 inch sizes or larger can bring out the best in the late-model Corvair suspension and brakes. The 110 hp engine has a great reputation for good performance, torque, and reliability, and is actually quite often the engine of choice in heavier Corvair vans and trucks. The Powerglide automatic transmission also has a good reputation for reliability, as long as the fluid levels are properly maintained. It is not a sporty transmission, and many prefer the feel and performance of a four speed manual transmission. But it gets the job done, and it does so reliably.

I would suggest that you take possession of your Corvair and drive it for a while. Get the feeling for its handling, braking, and performance characteristics. If it has stock wheels and tires (13 inch), you might look into an upgrade in this area. Upgrading the wheels and tires gives you many options in 14 inch sizes or larger. Fitted properly, the rewards in braking and handling performance can be significant. Take some time to get to know your Corvair. Learn to properly maintain it in the stock configuration before you consider radical performance changes. Such changes can be expensive, can reduce drivability and reliability, and may take you in a direction with an outcome that is not all that satisfying. You may want to lean towards a performance GT type of vehicle — one that is enjoyable to drive on long, scenic trips.

Modern 4-door sedans are often popular in today's market. Sporty sedans from BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. populate the luxury sport class, and I think a properly restored and configured Corvair sedan has a rightful place in this category. 1965-1967 Corvair sedans share the same weight range as the coupe and convertible, and their brakes and suspension is also the same. So handling, brakes, power and style in the Corvair sedan can easily match the coupe and convertible. Electronic fuel injection, cruise control, tinted windows, sound deadening materials, A/C, modern electronics, sporty wheels and tires, etc. all help to transform a 1965-67 sedan into a classy 21st century classic car for a fraction of the cost of modern sport sedans. Here are a couple of examples...

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[img]httsp://www.corvairforum.com/forum/download/fil ... &mode=view[/img]

You may want to make improvements in the sound system to take advantage of modern satellite radio, GPS systems, hands-free phone, cruise control, etc. if you drive in a hot climate you may even consider adding air conditioning. But you should realize that air cooled engine has limited capacity for absorbing high-performance modifications, while dissipating the increased heat that may be associated with more horsepower. A fully loaded four-door sedan with four passengers and associated luggage may be working quite hard when driving through hilly terrain. Adding air conditioning increases the load as well.

Whether you are making performance and horsepower modifications to the engine, or adding convenience and comfort features to the car, you need to consider the type of work you're going to expect the car to perform. If you're going to race the car you want to keep the weight down, increased the horsepower in ways that will not reduce reliability excessively, you may want to add disc brakes to match the performance expectations you want to realize in the car. Or if you are building a machine to meet your needs as a daily driver and touring car, your list of upgrades and modifications may be considerably different from that of a race car. But again, I would suggest getting to know your car in its stock configuration first. Take some time to read and research performance modifications that have been tested and proven by others on their Corvairs. Be realistic in developing your objectives and goals for your Corvair. Make a list of improvements you are considering, do some research to see what others have done in those areas, and develop a price list and cost estimate to achieve those objectives to match your budget with your dreams.

Corvair owners often modify their Corvairs to meet objectives in road racing, drag racing, as daily drivers, or as vehicles intended for long scenic drives. Once you have owned the Corvair and driven it for a while, you will begin to know the characteristics of the car well enough to decide what you might like to change, and in what direction you're going to move with your Corvair. Whatever modifications you are considering, you are sure to find plenty of opinions and recommendations here on the Corvair Forum.

Here are some links with some upgrade comments for a car similar to yours...

:link: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=10343&p=70409&hili ... ion#p70409

:link: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5860&p=40109&hilit ... ion#p40109

This book might be a good way to start your research…

Performance Corvairs: How to Hotrod the Corvair Engine and Chassis Paperback – April 29, 2013
by Seth Emerson (Author), Bill Fisher (Author)

:link: https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Corv ... 90HJC0YX54

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Brad Bodie
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Nate-M
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by Nate-M »

Thanks for the input so far everyone! Right now I'm seeing some used 140 motors that would be cheaper than buying just the heads, so maybe I'll pick one up and give it a go? Either replace the entire engine or take the heads and crank? :think:

I'm also interested in the Honda engine suggestion... spent most of the day paging through forums and doing research. Ideally I would want to do a Subaru engine swap but apparently mating the engine and transmission together is nigh undoable (at least if you want to keep it rear-engine)... :sad5:
Nate-M
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by Nate-M »

bbodie52 wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:50 pm
:evil: If I may play the devil's advocate for the purpose of this discussion, let me ask a few questions.
  • Is this your first Corvair?
  • Have you ever driven this Corvair, or driven that any significant distance — long enough to get the feel for it under a range of driving conditions on the open highway?
  • Have you ever driven a Corvair with a similar engine (110 hp) and a manual four speed transmission?
  • Are you looking to build a Corvair to be used in racing, some form of competition, or do you want a car that has good drivability and reliability as a regular form of transportation on the street?
This is my first Corvair. I test drove it a few weeks back (though not on the freeway where most of my commute will be) and I do like how it drove. I'll be picking it up this Saturday, so this is all just random thoughts at the moment. It's not going to be racing, I just want a reliable daily driver, and I've always liked classic cars, so the Corvair seemed to fit the bill without breaking the bank.

Really this might come from working at an engineering firm where most of the guys are into big hp numbers and I guess it's kind of rubbing off, so I wanted to know if there were any possibilities for improvement down the road.

I'll take your advice and spend some time getting to know the car and making your suggested improvements before I try anything crazy ::-):

(But if anyone has any more suggestions I like reading what can be done with these cars!)
64powerglide
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Re: New Corvair Owner - Increasing Performance

Post by 64powerglide »

Try looking on E-Bay or even have a single 4 BBL carb intake manifold made. They were a hot item in the early 60's & don't let anyone tell you they supply to much fuel. I rode in my cousins 62 102 HP with a 4 BBL, what a difference. They come up on E-Bay once in a while. With your background & co-workers you should be able to come up with something.
64Powerglide, Jeff Phillips

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