Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

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WinginEngineer
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Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by WinginEngineer » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:54 am

My 62 4 door's engine harness is in the same shape as most "project cars"... 50 years old, brittle, corroded, a couple questionable repairs, broken wires, etc... combine that with how many mods I'm making and the fact that I just rebuilt the whole drivetrain and I figure I should just build a new harness.

So I took the mods that I'm doing and hodge-podged them together using a few different schematics from posts here on the forum and I THINK I have a schematic I can use. That said, I never claimed to be an electrical engineer (in fact my only C in college was EE), so I thought I'd post it and let the more experienced and knowledgeable scan over it and make sure I don't fry my baby before she even starts.

As far as mods:

-I got ahold of a LM 35 amp alternator (at least I'm 80% sure its 35) which is replacing the generator. To go with that, since it is not internally regulated near as I can tell, I got a Delco Remy external regulator that just has spade terminals labeled 1-4.

- I'm adding a remote oil cooler with an electric fan. I also got a thermostatic control switch and relay to go with said fan.

- I put a high torque starter on it that just has the battery terminal and the start wire on it, so I also got a Ford starter relay to go with that to get my 12vdc start voltage to the coil.

Other than that (ha ha) she's bone stock. So with all that in mind, here is what I THINK I should be wiring to... give me any thoughts you have and let me know if I screwed up anywhere (forgive the visual appearance of my schematic... I'm no artist either)...
20170716_012812.jpg
Last edited by WinginEngineer on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kevin - Maricopa/Mesa, AZ
1962 Corvair 700

Jerry Whitt
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Re: Check My Wiring?

Unread post by Jerry Whitt » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:49 pm

Enlarged your drawing, and found hand printed words not clear, hard to read.

One item seemed really out of place. Using an alternator with a separate voltage regulator. The integral type alternators work very well, and the wiring is easy. If you changed the generator bracket for the alternator type,
the integral alternator works very well and will produce double the amperage of what you guess is the rating of the alternator you have.
Jerry Whitt
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WinginEngineer
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Re: Check My Wiring?

Unread post by WinginEngineer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:13 am

Jerry, there are two words to explain my choice of alternator: cost and opportunity.

The bracketry for the alternator was included my baskets of parts. My generator was shot and would have required a full rebuild. I found a nice gentleman in Apache Junction who's Corvair hobby got out of hand and he was willing to take my burned up generator and give me his LM alternator for $50.

Down the road I will probably put a 90 amp in it, but for now 35 should be sufficient.

You'd never guess by the $3,000 I've spent on this car in the last 2 months, but I am TRYING to keep the costs down :)
Kevin - Maricopa/Mesa, AZ
1962 Corvair 700

WinginEngineer
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Re: Check My Wiring?

Unread post by WinginEngineer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:56 pm

Nothin'? No one?

I'm wiring up now...

Particularly i'm concerned with the alternator wiring. The diagram I've done has pin 3 of the regulator tied to the pin on the main harness just bellow the hot from the alternator.
All the diagrams I found for a generator system show that going there, but the onky alternator diagram showed that trace stopping in mid air on its way to the main harness without any termination or destination on the diagram.

Can someone confirm at least that part so I don't cook the charging system? :)
Kevin - Maricopa/Mesa, AZ
1962 Corvair 700

WinginEngineer
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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by WinginEngineer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:01 am

So i fear i get a bit wordy sometimes, so i'll get my important questions up top here, then the details down below.

1) Does the 10 awg line from the voltage regulator to the ignition switch supply 12v to the switch, or does the switch supply it? If that 10 awg line is not the power source for the switch (which i'm beginning to supect it is not), what is? I can't imagine the coil line should have a constant voltage with the key off. And the start line certainly doesn't make sense to be always on, but that's all that runs to the switch, right?

2) I have 12v at the alternator "batt" terminal, and thereby at #3 on the regulator, but i do not have any voltage anywhere else on the regulator (with or without ignition on). Should I have 12v on the "F" terminal too?

Ok, mow the details. So with some further help from Dave T and some online searching I came to a wiring solution that i think i'm confident in. After things settle down i'll clean the schematic up in software and correct it, then post it in case anyone else ever needs it. BUT... it don't work.

So when I first hooked up the battery after wiring i got a fireworks show. Turns out my Ford starter relay was going to ground when i tightened the terminal. Got that fixed, but then the trouble shooting started.

At first, i would hook up the battery and the dash warning lights would come on... no key or anything. But turning on the ignition switch yeilded zip, no reaction of any kind, even in start. My left hand backup light was also stuck on, but none of my other lights would work at all, even on the front.

So I disconnected the batt and pulled the factory plug at the firewall totally out, replaced it with spades until i can put my $30 deutch in there, but it made no difference. So i disconnected all the light circuits and powered them up one by one rearranging the wires until they all lit up appropriately. Turns out i pretty much hooked the lights up 180 degrees from correct... so that's fixed and all it cost me was a turn signal flasher, also now fixed.

But now... i have no power at the 10 awg wire running to the ignition switch. So it's dead stick. I can "hot wire" the wire and everything works as it should, except then everything is still on with the key off. I don't know how i went from always on to never on just by fixing the lights, but that's where i'm at.

So....................... help me out here! What have i done and what do i need to do to fix it?

I've attach a pic of the regulator with labels for some clarity... :rolling: :helpsos:
Screenshot_20170806-233200.jpg
Kevin - Maricopa/Mesa, AZ
1962 Corvair 700

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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:19 am

Dunno exactly what you have going on there. I am good with wiring, but, when I see wiring that looks like that in a Corvair I just replace the bad sections with repro wiring g harnesses from Clark's Corvair Parts. High quality and way less troublesome than even well cobbled together wiring. I then add any extra circuits I need.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:31 am

Converting your car from generator to original external regulated alternator car requires some wiring changes. Here is a copy of diagrams from the CORSA Tech Guide that will show you what these changes are.
SCAN0011 (2).JPG
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

WinginEngineer
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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by WinginEngineer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:19 pm

Thank you! I see what i did wrong. I wish I had that diagram at the onset!

It was actually a relatively pretty harness until i pulled the main connector. I didn't go premade from clarks or otherwise because of my accessories and the fact that i'm using the externally regulated alternator. That instantly makes it a custom harness. By the time i hack up a premade i could make it cleaner from scratch... which is what i did.

But I've certainly seen worse harnesses...
20170724_010935.jpg
Kevin - Maricopa/Mesa, AZ
1962 Corvair 700

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bbodie52
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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by bbodie52 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:36 pm

In the schematic diagram below I have combined the engine compartment and interior wiring diagrams for the 1962 Corvair passenger car into a single diagram. I have also modified the wiring diagram to remove the generator and generator voltage regulator and replace them with the 1965-69 alternator and external alternator voltage regulator.

I used existing generator wiring to connect the alternator voltage regulator to the alternator and labeled the terminals. I added the wire labeled 10 R to the alternator connection and added a junction point to connect it to the existing wire labeled 10 B (routed from the battery positive terminal to the eight pin multi-connector). A voltage regulator voltage sensing wire labeled 20 R was also added from voltage regulator connector 3 to the existing positive battery wire 10 B (requires a splice connection). The existing wire labeled 20 BRN was retained and is connected to the voltage regulator connector 4. (This is the GEN/FAN warning light).


Left-click the schematic diagram below to enlarge for better viewing…
1962 Combined Passenger Compartment & Engine Compartment (Alternator Mod).jpg
1962 Passenger Car Combined Schematic (Alternator Mod).jpg
1962 Passenger Car Combined Schematic (Alternator Mod)
Brad Bodie
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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:30 pm

WinginEngineer wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:19 pm
Thank you! I see what i did wrong. I wish I had that diagram at the onset!

It was actually a relatively pretty harness until i pulled the main connector. I didn't go premade from clarks or otherwise because of my accessories and the fact that i'm using the externally regulated alternator. That instantly makes it a custom harness. By the time i hack up a premade i could make it cleaner from scratch... which is what i did.

But I've certainly seen worse harnesses...

20170724_010935.jpg
Glad that helped. A huge benefit of the late model repro engine bay harness (besides having all fresh wires and connectors) is the included excellent rear lamp sockets (original are generally poor at this point).
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

WinginEngineer
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:31 pm

Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by WinginEngineer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:46 pm

Brad, you da man. I actually didn't see those combined schematics until last weekish, but meshing them together like that makes it crystal clear for the next poor schmuck that tries this.

Terribleted, I actually thought about those connectors being an issue. They suck. This is stage 1 harness for this car to get her on the road. Stage 2 will come after I move to LED tail lamps, 90 amp internally regulated alternator, and remote mount electric AC. At that time I'll be gutting the entire car and it'll be new wiring front to back. I'll probably use a painless or kwik harness for that, and everything will move to either weathertight or deuch connectors for EVERYTHING. But right now, i need the car. Work before play.
Kevin - Maricopa/Mesa, AZ
1962 Corvair 700

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Re: Check My Wiring?... Got a Gremlin... HELP!

Unread post by terribleted » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:49 pm

I have not found a good source for tail lamp sockets that measure up to the ones included in Clark's harness. Clark's lists sockets individually but the ones I have received from them as individual sockets are not the same quality as in the harnesses. They are the same as local parts houses have and are pretty mediocre by comparison.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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