Rear wheel camber

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my65
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Rear wheel camber

Unread post by my65 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:58 pm

While at a motor cross this past weekend, one of the members notice that my car's rear camber was in question and needed checked out.
I do not have alignment equipment so I just used a framing square to get a rough idea, and found the right wheel with a negative camber over 1 1/2" while the left wheel was a negative 9/16" .
All the strut bushings and sleeves, as well as, stabilizer sleeves and grommets are new a year a go. The car also had a four wheel alignment at that time by a qualified shop?
I removed the right wheel and could not see any obvious damage. Can the camber adjusting bolt correct this much???
Is it normal for the rear camber adjustment to go out this often???
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Ed ( my65 )
65 Monza Convertible
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Wagon Master
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by Wagon Master » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:14 pm

Make sure the floor you car is setting on is level, where the rear wheels are setting.
Make sure the upright section of the framing square you're using is plump. (Perfectly vertical)

my65
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by my65 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:32 pm

Thanks, they are.
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terribleted
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by terribleted » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:06 pm

Camber is adjustable with the camber bolts that mount the outer end of the strut rod. I adjust negative 1 degree or a bit more (I like a little more camber for look and depending on tire wear I have run near 2 degrees). 1 degree negative is spec. Best to measure this on an actual alignment machine, it is very easy for the rear tires to pull it in or out a little while parking to measure
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66vairguy
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by 66vairguy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:55 pm

You rarely find a "level" garage floor, but usually they are close. A simple string and weight makes a good plumb line.

Also check to make sure the rim isn't bent (shops never check that and it will throw off the machine).

The camber eccentric nut torque is considerable at 85-90 ft. lbs.!!! The one shop I went to complained the bolts were "too tight" and only used a air impact gun to tighten them (not adequate). I had to torque them later. Frankly I haven't found a decent four wheel alignment shop yet.

Try another place. Good luck.

gnrand
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by gnrand » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:31 pm

Now I know some will say I am going to kill myself and they are only for off road but these struts work great on my car. I think I have 1.5 negative using a digital level.
https://www.corvettemods.com/C4-Corvett ... _6683.html
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azdave
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by azdave » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:00 am

gnrand wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:31 pm
Now I know some will say I am going to kill myself and they are only for off road but these struts work great on my car.
https://www.corvettemods.com/C4-Corvett ... _6683.html
What people?

Vair folks been using those for at least 7-10 years on the LM suspensions. I have them on several cars like my wife's 65 4-dr.

To the OP,

Sure the camber can change greatly if things aren't right. I just fixed a friend's rear camber after the alignment shop didn't tighten the adjuster bolt enough after getting it set. It slipped to the max inward lean (Positive camber) position. We jacked it up, set it back to normal and then tightened it down properly. Camber won't change quickly like that unless there is damage, loose parts or bushings falling out.
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by thewolfe » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:42 am

I used to have those c4 strut rods and after 2 years of driving only a few thousand miles the bushings were shot. Wallowed out. They work but are cheaply made and don't come with all the hardware needed. If you want something that is much better quality, made in USA, and works better(doesn't bind like stock or c4 rods), go with the PMT rods. They are more expensive but worth every penny and are made for corvairs. http://pmtfabrication.com/product/65-69 ... strut-rods
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66corsaguy
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by 66corsaguy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:43 pm

Green guy here but what are the benefits of switching to these strut rods?


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my65
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by my65 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:28 pm

This is starting to make sense now. Although the strut rod bushings and serrated sleeves were replaced a year ago when the car had a four wheel alignment, there was a situation that could have caused the camber to get knocked out. About two months ago, I had the studs on the right rear wheel snap and the weight of the car was caught by the rim. I had the wheels rebalanced and inspected but never looked at the alignment. Now I think that event let the camber adjusting bolt move to it's max negative position??
Other than taking it to a shop, it there a way for me to correct the camber????!!!!
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thewolfe
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by thewolfe » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:41 pm

Sounds like you have figured out why things changed. You can set the camber yourself by turning the cam bolt on that one side and measuring like you are doing as long as your car is on level ground. That should get you close enough to run without any problems.
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thewolfe
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by thewolfe » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Green guy here but what are the benefits of switching to these strut rods?
The c4 rods are a cheap replacement for the stock rods. I believe that is why people buy them, because they cost less than rebuilt stock rods. The c4 rods also come with urethane bushings and are of a design that does away with the cam bolts. The camber adjustment is made on the rod instead. A lot of people like them but they wore out in my car before very long. I'm also critical of any parts I use in my car. You won't know they are worn until pulling them out and looking at the bushings. Urethane is stiff and in my opinion not the best choice for a bushing that twists which there is twisting that goes on at the strut rods during suspension travel. The urethane will bind more than stock rubber, making it a stiffer ride and also wearing the bushings out faster. The PMT rods are also adjustable like the c4 rods but have a significantly larger urethane bushing at one end that doesn't require stacking washers to take up a large gap like the c4 rods, bigger tubing that is powder coated chrome moly, and a urethane spherical bushing at the other end that can twist and turn in any direction with the suspension travel making the PMT rods smoother and non binding. I have used those same spherical bushings in the rear torque arms, front lower control arms, and front strut rod locations to take all the bind out of my entire suspension and the results are significantly better than when I had urethane bushings throughout. I have done two other suspensions now in the same manner for club members, one of which drove his car from Oregon to the convention last month. He also had urethane bushings in his car before and wouldn't stop talking about how much better his car drove and handled with the upgraded bushings after getting back.
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my65
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by my65 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:46 pm

:not worthy: Thanks to all :ty:
Ed ( my65 )
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66vairguy
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by 66vairguy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:34 pm

66corsaguy wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:43 pm
Green guy here but what are the benefits of switching to these strut rods?


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As others said - the C4 type struts are easy to adjust and have less "give" vs. stock. For normal driving I find rebuilding the struts with rubber bushings works fine.

First - the lower strut must "twist" by design as the wheel and trailing arm drop through an arc. This requires a rubber type bushing that will "give". A stiffer urethane bushing will cause binding of the suspension. For normal driving the factory design worked well. All you have to do is go back and read the original drive reports in car magazines and you'll see the LM Corvair rear suspension worked very well.

The other issue with the "stock" rubber bushings is differential lube leaks from bad seals and attacks the rubber inner bushings so folks like the urethane which is resistance to lube. The C4 type rods with "spherical" fittings allow that strut rod attachment to turn so it does not bind things. Great for racing, but the spherical joints tend to attract road dirt and I've seen this type of design wear out relatively fast on the street.

I remove the old rubber bushings and machine the strut to accept a rubber type bushing with a shell used in GM pickups rear suspension. My cars handle nice, ride nice, and it's a durable solution. Of course my differential is rebuilt and does not leak!! Clark's sells the bushings c7874. BTW - due to variations in the holes in the strut arms - they usually don't just "press in" per Clark's. The hole is easy to machine to a proper interference fit with the bushing shell.

my65
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by my65 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:36 am

Well I thought I was done here because today, I was going to readjust the camber bolt back to zero and remeasure the wheel lean. :banghead: When I put my scocket on the nut.....it slipped right off. My grade eight bolt had no threads and the nut looked perfect :dontknow: . There is a posting by Charle titled " 1965-1969 rear control arm strut rods" dated Jan 8, 2015 where he took a picture that shows the same condition as my bolt. Could the shop that replaced the strut bushing last year strip the bolt and not correct it or could it have been the sheering of the wheel studs and fall of the car?
I thought that Clark's camber bolts had a secured alignment washer, but when I looked in their catalog, it just shows a grade 8 bolt ?? So do I just cut off the old alignment washer and weld it to a new grade 8 bolt??
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66vairguy
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Re: Rear wheel camber

Unread post by 66vairguy » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:08 pm

Was the camber bolt that failed an original, or the Clark's replacement?

I recall (maybe incorrectly) that the original factory bolts had a welded eccentric at the bolt head with a cut position for the nut side eccentric. The Clark's bolts are cut along the entire shaft so both eccentrics slip on the bolt shaft. So yes the Clark's bolts and nuts must be grade eight. I'm not sure what grade the factory bolts were, but if they were grade 5 a replacement grade 8 nut could easily strip the threads if it was not started correctly - very easy to do with fine threads. I doubt your wheel accident caused this - stripped threads are usually due to improper thread alignment or over tightening, which with a fine thread is unlikely as the bolt would probably break first.

BTW - how did you shear all the lug studs, usually this only happens when the lug nuts come loose.

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