Cibie Headlights

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rnd5553
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Cibie Headlights

Post by rnd5553 »

Any issue with using Cibie (H4) headlights on my 66 Monza?

For example, would these cause any over heating of wires/connectors, or possibly other stir up any electrical gemlins by using these?
cnicol
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by cnicol »

Depends on the wattage of the bulbs. Most of the H4 bulbs are high wattage and will trip the 15 amp circuit breaker in the headlight switch.

Stock bulbs are 37W each as I recall so four draw about 8 amps on high beam. H4s high filaments are sometimes 100W each, so 400W on high beam, so almost 30 amps.

What's the wattage of the bulbs you have in mind?
'61 140 PG Rampside
'66 Rear Alum V8 4-dr
'60 Monza PG coupe (sold, sniff, sniff)
'66 Corsa Fitch Sprint Conv. (First car 1971, recently repurchased)
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bbodie52
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by bbodie52 »

Installing powerful lights like you describe may not only overtax the standard wiring harness, but it may gradually cause the battery to drain if the total load exceeds the capacity of the alternator or generator system. A heavy duty fused wiring harness kit that includes a switching relay is often used when installing such powerful lights. Using such lights on a street vehicle may not be legal in many states. And an upgrade to this type of powerful lighting system may also necessitate an upgrade to the charging system that must support it.
Hella Rallye 4000 Wiring Harness Kit (148541001)

This heavy-duty Wiring Harness Kit fits all Rallye 4000 Lamps and includes modular connectors, switch, and fused relay to ensure a quick and professional-looking installation of your Rallye 4000 Lamps. Each Wiring Harness Kit will wire two Rallye 4000 Lamps to a single switch.
Image

Without knowing the specifications for the components that you intend to use it is hard to say exactly what will be needed to make this conversion on your Corvair. I would recommend spending some time doing some research using Google to learn all you can about these conversion kits. To get you started, check out the following…

1966 CHEVY CORVAIR HEADLIGHTS
5 3/4" Round Vision Plus Factory Style Composite Headlights

:link: https://www.carid.com/1966-chevy-corvai ... B%5D=Hella

:link: https://www.carid.com/1966-chevy-corvai ... 33772.html
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
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SyntheticBlnkerFluid
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by SyntheticBlnkerFluid »

My '68 has aircraft landing lights for high beams. Highly illegal, but my dad installed them in the 70's and had to make a separate circuit for the high beams because the amperage overtaxed the electrical system.


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1968 Monza 140 4-Speed Posi

Rob
Chebanse, IL
dixon5553
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by dixon5553 »

Good info - on this note, any suggest for replacement lights that would provide more light than the standard OEM style of the 60's, without "taxing" my electrical system as would the Cibie's from what I've seen here.
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bbodie52
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by bbodie52 »

The standard Corvair alternator is rated at 35 A. This may be sufficient to maintain the charge on the battery after installing a halogen bulb headlight upgrade kit. This may also be the most cost-effective method of improving the headlights on your Corvair. The range of modern headlight options and pricing listed for the Corvair is incredible. I would suggest spending some time looking through the options and reading the online help information. Ultimately, speaking to one of their customer service technicians may be the best way to answer your questions.

Reading the following may answer many of your questions…

A wide range of custom headlights for the 1966 Corvair are listed at the following link…
:link: https://www.carid.com/1966-chevy-corvair-headlights/

HOW TO INSTALL A SET OF CUSTOM HEADLAMP ASSEMBLIES
:link: https://www.carid.com/articles/how-to-i ... blies.html

STILL NEED HELP? OUR CUSTOMER SUPPORT IS HERE TO HELP
Our goal is to provide the best customer experience in the industry. Still don't see what you're looking for or have additional questions?
Our Customer Experience Specialists are standing by ready to assist you. Try us - Chat, E-mail or Phone.
https://www.carid.com/help-center/

Sales: (800) 505-3274 Email: sales@carid.com

Comments: After researching it to death, I just finished installing a pair of Cibie 082440 lenses (made in France) and HELLA HLA-H83140171 H4 100/80W (made in Germany) bulbs. Including a relay the harness with ceramic connectors (made in China) the upgrade was around $115. After aiming the lights and going for the test drive.... Wow! Thoroughly impressed how much it improved visibility.

The ride home is dark and has plenty of winding back roads. Needed the upgrade for safety sake but couldn't justify the $400 for LEDs. Now that I've gone this route I would definitely do it again and highly recommend to others. I'm interested to see the longevity of the bulbs but even still they're under $9/ea on Amazon.

I've owned loads of types of lighting and lenses on the market at this point (halogen, HID/bi-xenon, LED, projectors) from all kinds of respected brands and in all types of vehicles. This upgrade is definitely a high value to cost ratio.
If you're shopping for a reasonable price with a huge upgrade of light intensity and not willing to compromise quality, look no further.
INFORMATION FROM CIBIE CATALOG (Copy attached)

BULB LIFE

The life expectancy of quartz halogen bulbs is greater than that of conventional bulbs when supplied with constant voltage through clean, solid, low resistance connections. Since most electrical systems produce momentary power surges at the instant the engine is started, it is imperative that you avoid starting the engine with the lamps are lighted, especially in cold weather. while excess voltage is generally recognized as the prime killer of quartz bulbs, low voltage is equally damaging as it does not permit the bolt to attain the operating temperature necessary for the halogen recycle to occur.

HANDLING THE BULB

When handling the bulb, exercise extreme caution to avoid touching the glass portion of the bulb. The greasy film deposited by your fingers will form a hotspot on the glass which results in premature bolt failure. Should you accidentally handle the glass envelope, clean it thoroughly with alcohol and cotton before lighting the bulb.

BULB SELECTION GUIDE AND ELECTRICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Standard Equipment Bulbs: H4 Watts: 55/60 Amps: 4.2/4.5 (12 V) Part Number: 01–44–02

Optional/Specialty Bulbs: H4 Watts: 80/100 Amps: 7.6 (12 V) Part Number: 01-44-03
NOTE: 100 W bulbs should be restricted to motorsports and off-road applications. Use of 100 W bulbs voids warranty.
Cibie Catalog.pdf
(6.37 MiB) Downloaded 34 times
Brad Bodie
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Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
66vairguy
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by 66vairguy »

rnd5553 - Where are you buying the Cibie H4 housings from?

The Cibie light pattern is superior to the HELLA in my opinion.

The 9003 is a U.S.A. street legal H4 bulb - 60 Watt low, 55 Watt HI. To run all four lamps on HI you need relays for reliable operation. Even with stock headlamps folks have used relays to improve amperage flow.

You do not need high temperature wiring or sockets with the 9003, but you will with the 100W (or greater) "off-road" bulbs.

What bulbs are you going to run on the HI only inside lamps? Some are H1, some are H4 and use only the HI filament.
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Allan Lacki
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by Allan Lacki »

When restoring my 7966 Monza coupe, I replaced the old-fashioned high beam lamps with Cibie halogen high beams equipped with 55-watt H-l bulbs. To do it, I used the power lead for the horn relay located in the trunk. The relay is controlled by the dimmer switch wire, which is in the same harness. If you are a member of CORSA, you can log onto the CORSA website and find the how-to article that I wrote about it. It's in the December 2002 issue of the CORSA Communique.
66vairguy
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by 66vairguy »

Allan Lacki wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:40 am When restoring my 7966 Monza coupe, I replaced the old-fashioned high beam lamps with Cibie halogen high beams equipped with 55-watt H-l bulbs. To do it, I used the power lead for the horn relay located in the trunk. The relay is controlled by the dimmer switch wire, which is in the same harness. If you are a member of CORSA, you can log onto the CORSA website and find the how-to article that I wrote about it. It's in the December 2002 issue of the CORSA Communique.
Allan - what was the model number of the Cibie lamps you used and do you remember where you purchased them?

The horn relay wire is 14GA nad more than adequate for supply the headlamps using the 55 WATT bulbs, BUT I would NOT try to use the horn with the headlights on since that wire is not fused. The Horns amperage is not in the manual (at least I could not find it), but they use a larger wire indicating a high amperage load when the horns are activated.

While a lot of work I prefer to run a wire back to the main power node at the engine compartment. Some move the battery to the front and that allows the headlamp harness (fused of course) to be run to the battery.
firstgencamarojunkie
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by firstgencamarojunkie »

I agree w/ '66vairguy' - run a cable from the back to the front using a large gauge wire - then use a harness to connect. I used the following harness as it allowed my "stock" harness to remain un-altered in case I wanted to set it back to stock. works great, and it was only a saturday morning worth of work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231080420400?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
66vairguy
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by 66vairguy »

firstgencamarojunkie wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:31 pm I agree w/ '66vairguy' - run a cable from the back to the front using a large gauge wire - then use a harness to connect. I used the following harness as it allowed my "stock" harness to remain un-altered in case I wanted to set it back to stock. works great, and it was only a saturday morning worth of work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231080420400?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
firstgen - nice harness, do you know what the relay #'s are. Some of the harnesses don't use standard relays - hard to find.
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bbodie52
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by bbodie52 »

According to the notes posted by the quartz halogen light vendor (quoted in my earlier post) quartz halogen bulbs appear to be particularly sensitive to fluctuations in voltage that might be caused by other subsystems in the car. They caution about starting the engine with the lights on, and how those surges in voltage can shorten the life of the quartz halogen bulbs. Power for the horn relay in the trunk may appear to be a source that can handle significant current loads, but if you trace the 14gauge wire back you will see that it shares a spliced distribution point that is fed by a 10gauge wire from the battery, but then distributes power to the cigarette lighter, the fuse block, the main light switch, and the ignition switch, as well as the horn relay. All of this branches out to many circuits throughout the car — many of which could produce voltage spikes that could degrade the power provided to your quartz halogen bulbs.

I would suggest consulting with a technical advisor at a large vendor that is familiar with the issues that may impact a quartz halogen headlight upgrade in an older classic car. The use of a dedicated 10gauge circuit from the battery location, possibly coupled with a fused relay system may be the best approach to support your installation. But since it is adding complexity and expense to your upgrade, consulting with a technical advisor before making any purchases might be the best approach. Wire gauge and wire length both impact overall circuit resistance, so the proper gauge must be selected based on these factors and the expected current draw by the quartz halogen lights. A properly fused circuit is important to protect against the possibility of a short and fire hazard in a heavy gauge wire that travels the length of the car from the battery to the trunk. Making it a dedicated circuit without any other taps will help to reduce voltage spikes or dips, and a relay will be designed to handle the current load better than most contacts found in conventional switches. The key factor here is finding out the current specification for your 12 V halogen bulbs and then designing the support circuit to meet the needs of your new headlights.

There were many other headlight options listed for possible use in the Corvair, that make use of newer technologies other than the quartz halogen bulbs. Appearance, price, and illumination characteristics all must be considered. Some of the new designs may draw less current or may be less susceptible to damage from spikes or power dips. A newer design that produces good illumination that possibly draws less current might be a good trade-off if it fits within the charging system capabilities and does not force an alternator upgrade. All of this should be considered when discussing your upgrade options with an experienced technical advisor, and that is why I suggested a phone call before making your final selections.

:dontknow: If you do decide to contact the vendor and find their information useful in your decision-making process, I would like to suggest that you share whatever you learn here on the Corvair Forum. I am sure there are other Corvair owners who are "listening in" who would benefit from whatever key factors you learn about while doing your research.
Brad Bodie
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firstgencamarojunkie
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by firstgencamarojunkie »

Vairguy / I'll get that for you this weekend / sorry I didn't see your post earlier - Andy.
66vairguy
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Re: Cibie Headlights

Post by 66vairguy »

Thanks Andy.
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