Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Replacement. Now with more pics!

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bbodie52
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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by bbodie52 »

lostboy wrote:May 29, 2017 7:43 pm

I'm so happy I decided to do this now and not wait. This flywheel and clutch are beyond screwed. Thanks again guys.

What a refreshing video! I think it does an excellent job of encouraging newcomers to the world of Corvair ownership to be willing to "dig in" and get their hands dirty as they discover how to maintain their classic Corvair. Although you have the benefit of a great deal of prior mechanical experience with other vehicles, that experience helped you to clearly express your feelings on the degree of difficulty of the task that you just performed. And you did it in a way that was not apt to scare people off. Feedback like that can be very valuable to Corvair owners. I try to encourage people with words, but I would say that your video is much more effective in encouraging the do-it-yourself "backyard mechanic" towards taking on new tasks and getting past the uncertainty that is always present with performing a job that you've never done before. Your words and video help to give all of the previous comments posted here more validity. Encouraging people to work with shop manuals and other technical references to guide them, to listen to advice and assistance that is available to them on the Internet via sites like the Corvair Forum, and to seek out guidance and assistance if possible from other Corvair owners will help many to get past that first barrier in successful Corvair ownership — the willingness to tackle self-help projects and to teach themselves the skills needed to maintain their own Corvairs.

I cannot say that I was surprised by the deterioration that you discovered when you exposed your clutch assembly. Of course I had no way of knowing the types of abuse the previous owners may have exposed that car to, but I did have a lot of doubt as you expressed your earlier hopes to be able to reuse clutch components rather than having to replace them. That is why a suggested holding off on ordering parts for your clutch job because I felt guessing rather than looking just doesn't work. I believed that you would either buy too much or too little, and although injecting some time delay to obtain parts after performing the initial disassembly might be somewhat inconvenient, there is just no way to know until all the old components are spread out before you. The bad flywheel was a given, but there is just no way to know what kind of burn marks, oil saturation, or worn friction surfaces you are going to run into. The condition of the oil seals turned out to the also be an unknown that could not be determined until the differential and engine were separate entities. Dave Motohead's videos are, as you said, highly valuable guidelines to help in performing many tasks on the Corvair. But his vantage point is that of someone who spends a tremendous amount of time doing little else but working on Corvairs and playing with his garage chicken. ::-): Your vantage point as a new Corvair owner, but also as an experienced mechanic, can help the beginner to have the courage to move on and tackle jobs that he or she did not think themselves capable of.

I remember well the feelings and fears that I had as a 16-year-old in 1969 when I removed my first Corvair engine and transaxle (from an abused 1963 Corvair 500 in poor condition) and tackled rebuilding the engine and that Powerglide transmission. My prior experience consisted of little more than periodic oil changes and minor tuneups on my parent's 1965 Corsa. I was working alone and I certainly did not have the benefit of the Internet, CORSA club chapters, or other experienced Corvair owners to assist me. I believe that I sweated profusely in that garage as I nervously worked to lower that powertrain on my dad's floor jack while hoping not to drop it on my head! But I must say that every small success was part of an enormous confidence builder during my high school summer vacation. Having completely dismantled the engine and replaced all of the worn components, and having completed carefully reassembling the engine and successfully getting it back in the car without dropping it, it is difficult to share the feeling I had when I first turned the key and the engine started!
Neil Armstrong wrote:That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

Said when Armstrong first stepped onto the moon (20 July 1969)
I watched that first moon landing during the same summer that I was performing my first Corvair engine overhaul. I believe the experience helped me to better understand Neil Armstrong's feelings as they searched for a good landing site upon which to establish Tranquility Base. My tranquility base was established in a small two car garage in Campbell California!

...And with a little tuning it ran well!! In fact, a few years later when I was 19 years old that same engine — transplanted into a 1962 Monza — transported my new bride and me on our wedding day, to our wedding reception, and on a happy honeymoon from Southern California to the San Francisco Bay Area and back. I had no idea in 1969 that my first engine rebuild would later become my primary transportation as a newlywed! It is the gift that keeps on giving for new Corvair owners as they venture out to perform their own successful maintenance and repairs on their classic Corvair.

I'm looking forward to your future videos to document your efforts as a new Corvair owner, and the discoveries that go along with it. I believe that Dave Motohead will not suffer excessively because of the new competition.

I noticed that your clutch disc was an early design that included a riveted splined hub. Those rivets can loosen up also.

The first time I ever separated a manual transaxle from a Corvair engine, well, I didn't exactly approach it correctly. I had the engine resting upon some stacks of two by fours. I removed the starter, and I unbolted the transaxle from the engine. Being young (17), overconfident, and healthy I decided that I could simply lift the heavy transaxle away from the engine and set it on the garage floor! If you can picture this: I straddled the transaxle and bent over and cupped my hands under it — cradling all of its weight in my hands as I was completely bent over and expecting to walk away with this heavy transaxle between my legs! That was when I discovered the issue with the long input shaft that inevitably remains in the clutch disc. I was confronted with this very awkward moment (working alone, of course) when I had to try to figure out how to keep the alignment between the face of the differential and the clutch housing while balancing all of that weight in my hands, between my legs. I managed to take a whole series of very small backward steps while desperately trying to maintain the necessary alignment so that I would not damage the input shaft. That input shaft seem soooooo long! But the small splined end finally came out of the differential and I was able to set the transaxle on the floor. I think I simply went into the house after that to lay down for awhile.
:whoa: :zzzz:
Brad Bodie
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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

First, thank you for the kind words. I employ a lot of young guys and the biggest problem on any job is their fear of getting involved. A lot of times you just need to dig in. I won't lie, there was one moment when I was sweating a bit myself only because I initially couldn't tell if I had relieved all the pressure from between the two.

Let me ask, as I gather these parts, is it necessary to balance the clutch assembly with the flywheel?


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

All of the bellhousing bolts to the engine were just snug. No real torque on them at all.

Image


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

Is this right? It seems wrong to me.

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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

This isn't right, it's almost like they assembled the pressure-plate wrong.


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by bbodie52 »

There are compatibility issues between early and late-model clutch assemblies. The early models use a "flat finger" diaphragm spring, while the late model clutches use a "bent finger" diaphragm spring. The Early flywheels have a flat surface, while the late flywheels have a stepped machined surface. The Early and Late throw out bearings have different bearing heights, and the pivot ball stud is a different length. The compatibility and component differences are shown on the Clark's Corvair Parts page 108 below.

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1960 Corvair — Flat Finger...
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Clutch Pressure plate (1962-1963)
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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

bbodie52 wrote:There are compatibility issues between early and late-model clutch assemblies. The early models use a "flat finger" diaphragm spring, while the late model clutches use a "bent finger" diaphragm spring. The Early flywheels have a flat surface, while the late flywheels have a stepped machined surface. The Early and Late throw out bearings have different bearing heights, and the pivot ball stud is a different length. The compatibility and component differences are shown on the Clark's Corvair Parts page 108 below.

Image

Image

Image

Image

1960 Corvair — Flat Finger...
Image

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Clutch Pressure plate (1962-1963)
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I ordered the kit from clarks for a 1961. I even spoke to them on the phone. I'm disappointed. The fingers look inverted and I doubt it should be like that.


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

Image


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by bbodie52 »

Is the pressure plate in the picture fully torqued down to the flywheel? In your photo it looks like the clutch disc hub is protruding beyond the clutch pressure plate diaphragm spring "fingers". How would the throw out bearing reach the diaphragm spring?

Image

Left-click Image to Enlarge for Better Viewing...
Corvair Clutch and Flywheel - Extract from Performance Corvairs
Corvair Clutch and Flywheel - Extract from Performance Corvairs
Clutch Cross-Section.jpg
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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

Yes it's fully torqued. I think they riveted it together wrong. This is unbelievable. Just in time for the weekend.


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

Here's a better pic.

Image



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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by tractside »

Lostboy, I agree w Brad, that isn't right. I just went through that job on my '64 and like you it was a first time corvair. I also had to go through a couple of rounds of part ordering to get it right. I can say that the pressure plate and flywheel that I received from Corvair Underground seems to be balanced fine. I asked when ordering and the gentleman there didn't believe it was necessary. The disk came from Clarks. Best of luck to you.
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Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

tractside wrote:Lostboy, I agree w Brad, that isn't right. I just went through that job on my '64 and like you it was a first time corvair. I also had to go through a couple of rounds of part ordering to get it right. I can say that the pressure plate and flywheel that I received from Corvair Underground seems to be balanced fine. I asked when ordering and the gentleman there didn't believe it was necessary. The disk came from Clarks. Best of luck to you.
Thanks man, I ordered everything from clarks in an attempt to minimize F*ck ups. Lol that didn't go as planned. I already emailed them and am patiently awaiting a call back. I might try to re-use my old pressure plate at this point. I hate to do that, but this is bullshit. I have a friend at a machine shop who could probably cut my old one. What do you guys think?


Problem is the old plate face has stress fractures in it.


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by tractside »

I have a PP that you can have if you want it. It came out when I did my clutch last fall. Has very low wear as it was put in when engine was done and then not driven. The seals leaked and soaked the disk w oil and that is what prompted the replacement. I didn't reuse it because my car is a turbo and it isn't the right one. I don't know exactly the year or engine it's specified for but I'll give you the flywheel too. It's welded, but solid. Not knowing the provenance, I can't guarantee anything , but it's here if you want it.
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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by lostboy »

tractside wrote:I have a PP that you can have if you want it. It came out when I did my clutch last fall. Has very low wear as it was put in when engine was done and then not driven. The seals leaked and soaked the disk w oil and that is what prompted the replacement. I didn't reuse it because my car is a turbo and it isn't the right one. I don't know exactly the year or engine it's specified for but I'll give you the flywheel too. It's welded, but solid. Not knowing the provenance, I can't guarantee anything , but it's here if you want it.
I really appreciate the offer. Where are you located? Unfortunately I'm going to have to wait for clarks to call me on Monday. This is a major bummer.


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Re: Clutch Noise (Flywheel) Safe to drive?

Post by bbodie52 »

:angry: It is frustrating when human error creeps in to your plans, but Clark's has been doing a good job at supporting Corvair owners since the early 1970s and errors like this are pretty uncommon. There is a lot of work involved with your clutch replacement. I would suggest giving Clark's a little time to make things right. Then you can complete your work and it will be done right.

Please keep us updated and let us know how Clark's responds to try to correct this error!
Brad Bodie
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