67 Fuel line fixed!! but still no gas to carbs?? please help

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JamesCalvinIII
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67 Fuel line fixed!! but still no gas to carbs?? please help

Unread post by JamesCalvinIII » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:52 pm

Hey Guys,

I finally took my 67 500 2 Door out of storage after two years,

It ran great for a few years then the fuel pump went..

I put a new one in on the side of the road, drove home then didn't start again... I since got a new job and moved to a new place with my GF, I didn't have time for the car so it has been in storage... (can't wait to upload the photos since I purchased the car in 2012)

So as of right now, My rental garage sold in Long Island, NY (where I used to live) so I has it flat bedded to Brooklyn, where I currently live.

I am working out a deal with my land lord about renting the garage at my apartment, but he needs a friend to get his motorcycles out before the Corvair can finally move home. SO... I had to flatbed the car to my GF's mothers garage a few blocks away for the time being, eventually, in the next week or so, move it to my garage.

When the car was on an angle, gasoline poured out.... going on the lift and coming off

once we pushed the car into the garage, I used WD40 on all the links around the carbs, poured a little gas in the carbs and the car started right up.. after 2 years of not running... I didn't run it more than 30 seconds, because I wanted to work in some more WD40... with the air filter off, the carbs were getting their squirt of gas... it was running rough but running...

The fan belt seems loose, So I went to the garage today to tighten it and inspect some more... I ran it for about 90 seconds until it died... I added a gallon of gas, pumped a bunch... still wouldn't start or squirt gas into the carbs...

My next step was to take off the fuel lines to the fuel filter on the carb... and here begins my newbie problems

I could not get a grip on the smaller bolt and ended up stripping it, even with vise gribs... the fuel line twisted, which makes me want to replace it anyway... The filter is loose but, I feel I should just cut the line from the fuel pump to the fuel filter on the carb and make temporary rubber line to get the car running again

BUT my immediate goal is to have it running enough to drive it a few blocks to my garage.. once it's at my garage, I can address the real issue which is my gas tank needs to be replaced/redone, new fuel lines, filters and professionally rebuilt carbs.

as of right now, the fuel line is bent back and forth a few times, seems weak, the smaller bolt is striped, I just don't want to damage the carb...

any advice on what step I should take next on removal?

would also like opinion on temporary using rubber hoses for a few blocks?

proper lube, geese on getting the old ones off and getting new ones ones on

I have been doing a lot of reading on these engines, I just have very little experience, but I am very hands on


thanks in advance for the imput!
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Last edited by JamesCalvinIII on Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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toytron
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by toytron » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Just a future note...I would invest in a set of line wrenches. They are heavier duty (thicker) and they help prevent stripping those brake and fuel line nuts. If you use them and it seems that the line is frozen to the nut make sure you soak it with penetrating fluid and gently work it back and forth until you can get a rotation out of it.

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Jerry Whitt
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by Jerry Whitt » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:12 pm

Agree with the need for line wrenches. Napa has some good quality ones. You should also get a one inch box end wrench. Cut a slot in the circle part of the box so it can then slip over a fuel line. The one inch will fit the large nut on each carburetor. Use it to hold while trying to break loose the lines with the smaller line wrenches.
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terribleted
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by terribleted » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:51 pm

Now that the lines are screwed up removal can usually be accomplished by holding the large B-Nut with a 1" wrench and clamping a quality vice grip onto the fitting for removal. Really should not be trying to run it from old gas in the tank. I always run a car like this from an external fuel can. I disconnect the carb fuel lines at the fuel pump and install and extra "T" fitting I have and provide fuel via the original carb lines from an electric fuel pulling from the external fuel can. If you trust you stock fuel pump you can simply disconnect the rubber fuel line joiner above the left rear wheel of the car and hose from the steel line feeding the fuel pump down to a can of fresh gas (leaving all the existing engine fuel lines in place).
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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bbodie52
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by bbodie52 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:45 am

:think: There are several possibilities, based on the description and facts as you laid them out...
STALE FUEL. :puke: If you are attempting to run your engine using fuel that has been in the tank for several years — STOP! Fuel that is very old is no longer chemically anything but poison for your car. Draining the tank, flushing the fuel lines, etc. and replacing the fuel with fresh gasoline would be a good idea. Temporarily connecting another feed line from a gas can with fresh fuel, as described in an earlier post, would also work. Just keep the open gas can away from any spark or possible point of ignition that could ignite gasoline fumes that may be around an open gas can!

FUEL PUMP INSTALLATION. The mechanical fuel pump is driven by a push rod. If the pump is incorrectly inserted and/or not properly secured the push rod may not be applying a full stroke to the pump mechanism. The pointed end of the fuel pump retaining bolt can be screwed in by hand so that you feel it being guided into the hole on the side of the pump. This insures that the pump is secured at the correct mounting depth. The retaining bolt does not simply press against the side of the pump, but must be guided into the hole in the side of the pump. Once properly tightened, the lock nut is tightened to secure the retaining bolt.
Pump and Retaining Bolt.jpg
Pump and Retaining Bolt.jpg (14.22 KiB) Viewed 977 times
Fuel Pump - Loosening Locknut.jpg

FUEL FEED LINE. There are two short flexible rubber fuel lines in the fuel path between the fuel tank and the engine compartment. Most of the line is a steel tube. The short rubber line near the engine (next to the starter motor) allows for engine vibration and isolates the vibrating engine from the rigid steel fuel line.
It's Not Always My Fault.jpg
The mechanical fuel pump must create a vacuum in this long fuel line between the tank and the pump to draw the fuel to the pump, where it is pressurized and fed to the two carburetors.
JamesCalvinIII wrote:...When the car was on an angle, gasoline poured out.... going on the lift and coming off...
This statement is troubling. If the tank has a significant quantity of fuel in it, and the fuel rushes out when the car is tilted at an angle, I would guess that the rubber fuel line (that sits high, near the engine) may be ruptured and leaking. The hose and the clamps that secure it may need to be replaced. If you jack up the car (secure it with a jack stand — don't trust the jack) and remove the left-rear wheel, you should be able to gain access to the rear rubber fuel line to inspect/replace it. (If the rear hose has failed, the short length of rubber hose near the fuel tank may also be rotten. Replacing them both would be a good idea).

If there is a leak anywhere between the fuel tank and the pump inlet, the pump will not be able to create a good vacuum to draw the fuel from the tank and into the mechanical fuel pump. (This type of leak may not be readily apparent, since the feed line from the tank is not under pressure). Such a leak can make the pump appear to be defective, when the problem is actually a faulty fuel line between the pump and the tank. The pump may be fine and may be able to create adequate fuel pressure to the carburetors, but fuel starvation would be likely to occur, as the pump is starved for fuel delivery from the tank, caused by a vacuum leak.
Fuel Feed Line.jpg

The illustrations below are from the 1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual (attached). This shows you how to properly test the fuel pump for proper fuel pressure and for adequate fuel volume delivery...

Left-click each image to enlarge it for better viewing...
Corvair Fuel Pump Testing 1.jpg
Corvair Fuel Pump Testing 2.jpg
Corvair Fuel Pump Testing 3.jpg

Just a tip: when disconnecting steel brake or fuel lines, it is often best to use flare nut wrenches, as shown in the picture below. You cannot use a box end wrench, because there is no way to get it over the steel brake or fuel line. And a standard open-end wrench may slip and damage the flat sides of the brake or fuel line fitting. A flare-nut wrench provides the best-possible grip and is least-likely to round-off or damage the brake or fuel line fitting.

Image

Image

Image

A second wrench should also be used to secure the carburetor fuel inlet fitting, while loosening the fuel line with a flare nut wrench...
Carburetor Fuel Inlet.jpg
Carburetor Fuel Inlet.jpg (96.18 KiB) Viewed 973 times
If the fuel line fitting has been damaged, to the extent that a flare nut wrench cannot grip it, this tool might work...
azdave wrote:Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:44 am

I've had great luck with removing nasty brake line fittings by using a Vise Grips Brand 7LW. They also work well when someone before you has buggered up the hex nut.

These come in three sizes but I use the 7LW the most. Around $10-$15

https://www.amazon.com/Vise-Grip-Lockin ... B00004SBBD
Image
IRWIN Tools VISE-GRIP Locking Wrench with Wire Cutter

Jaw Capacity: 3/4" / 19 mm, Model: 7LW, Size: 7" / 175 mm, Price (Amazon.com): $8.68
:wrench:

:torch: Rubber fuel hoses running from the fuel pump make most of us nervous, because a flipped or broken fanbelt can cut or rupture a pressurized hose and spray gasoline all over the hot engine. You do not want to experience an engine fire!!
:extinguisher:
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=67
Image
Attachments
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 6M - ENGINE FUEL.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 6M - ENGINE FUEL
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Brad Bodie
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gnrand
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by gnrand » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:51 am

You should consider using copper gaskets between the fuel lines and the carb or T fittings. Roger Parent recommended this to me and it will seal up those connections. Since the copper is soft, I find disassembly is also easier. Part number from Grainger is 5WRW1 (in case the link does not work).

https://www.grainger.com/?cm_mmc=PPC:+M ... 13123331:s
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by gnrand » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:54 am

Looks like you will have to put in the part number in the Grainger search box.
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Danny Joe
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by Danny Joe » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:12 am

If the flare nuts are really stuck, you can clamp vise grips around the line wrench to help prevent the wrench from spreading and rounding the nut
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by bbodie52 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:28 am

:goodpost:

Flare Gasket, Flare Connection Type, 1/4" Tube Size, 10PK
:link: https://www.grainger.com/product/5WRW1? ... 13145741:s
Image

Flare Gasket, Flare Connection Type, 1/4" Tube Size, 10PK is listed on the Grainger website for $8.11 / pkg. of 10. However, they estimate $10.48 for standard shipping! Total: $18.59!! Shipping Weight 0.04 lbs.

Available at other online sources...
:link: https://www.zoro.com/parker-flare-gaske ... lsrc=aw.ds

ebay :link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-2GF-4-Fl ... 1551024661

Image
1/4" COPPER FLARE GASKET PK 10
PARKER| Zoro #: G1054602| Mfr #: 2GF-4
In Stock
Item ships from Zoro in 1 business day.
Qty: 1
Unit Price: $6.93
$6.93 Subtotal (1 item)

$5.00 Shipping

$0.00 Tax

$11.93


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Brad Bodie
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gnrand
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by gnrand » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:43 pm

With Grainger you could go online and pay but have it sent to the local store and avoid having to pay for shipping.
Jeff
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JamesCalvinIII
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by JamesCalvinIII » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:10 pm

Thanks for the responses,

I will order a set of line wrenches, and those vise grips.. I’m big on having the right tools for the right job.

I do not have a NAPA near me in Brooklyn, but I do have an auto zone, there tools seem cheap, I may be better off ordering some… what would be the best brand?

Also any recommendations on the penetrating fluid? I just used WD40

also should I get that pressure meter pictured?

remember I a newbie and the I don’t know some of the stuff you guys take as common knowledge

I guess I have two separate problems to solve…

The FIRST would be getting the car running so i can get it moved the few blocks to my garage…

It seems the best method would be to temporarily connecting another feed line from a gas can as suggested by both terribleted and bbodie52

Do either of you have any photos or a how to as to how to set this up?

I would want to run it through the current mechanical fuel pump since I don’t have access to an electric fuel pump… also since I screwed up the line to the left carb, I would probably have to throw a temporary rubber fuel hose on that until I order a new metal fuel lines

The SECOND issue is the fuel system…

Would you guys recommend buying a new tank or having mine redone, not sure of the prices here in NYC, but I can try to find a shop.

Also since i’m placing an order is there anything else you guys recommend? to get the fuel system all figured out.

I have a feeling the problem lies where the rubber fuel line sits high near the engine like bbodie52 suggested… the rubber which is supposed to be around area where the fuel line leaves the engine compartment has been missing and its been vibrating a lot…

I will jack up the car and take a look tomorrow

as far as removing the damaged fuel lines, should I just cut it and remove it?

thanks in advance

gnrand
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by gnrand » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:30 pm

Harbor Freight would have inexpensive wrenches for you and they are guaranteed for life.
Brooklyn is where I was born. Lived near Flatbush and Church streets. Brings back memories.
Jeff
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by terribleted » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:51 pm

Buy Irwin brand vice grips. The 7WR is the best all around locking plier.

Electric fuel pump Mr Gasket #42S is a good choice for temp use to operate a crudded up fuel system from a gas can, but since your pump is recent it may be ok and you might be able to run the car using it drawing from a temp fresh fuel source.

You can cut the existing fuel lines and splice with rubber temporarily. The hose diameter for the lines from the fuel pump block to the carbs is 1/4". The diameter of the input line from the tank to the fuel pump is 5/16".

Since it seem the car has only been out of operation for 2-3 years the tank may not be all that bad. It should be drained, removed, and inspected (remove sending unit and look inside with flashlight). If it is relatively clean the a good cleaning with dish soap and water sloshed all around inside with a length of light chain (think regular medium dog tie out), well rinsed and dried is all it should need. If it look like it has a lot of crud in it and is rusty, replacement is the best option.

DO NOT operate the engine on the old gas. Drain and dispose of it. Gasoline is pretty well degraded even after less than year. For vehicles that do not see much use or for gas used in small motors that may not get used up quickly adding some Stabil brand or other fuel stabilizer is a very good idea and cheap insurance. It will make the gas pretty viable out to nearly 2 years.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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toytron
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by toytron » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:52 am

Well I haven't checked on line wrenches in a while my Snap-on wrenches have not failed me in the almost 40 years that I have had them. What I liked about them was the design eliminates the possibility of stripping the nut because of the rounded inner corners. It might be that others have copied this design by now. The other thing it that they are beefy which helps eliminate the open end from moving.
As far as penetrating fluid I use either PB blaster or Kroil. Kroil is more expensive but it use it for the real tough jobs. PB is preferred by many that I know also. WD40 is mainly used for water displacement. A friend of mine that had a car wash use to bail out many a young kid who tried power washing his engine back in the day by spraying their distributor after they saturated it with water. As far as a penetrant it is a fair product and inexpensive but for the tough jobs you may need something stronger. Kroil is probably the best for some of us who are not as patient as others.:)

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terribleted
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Re: 67 Fuel line issue for a new guy

Unread post by terribleted » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:12 am

Ditto on PB Blaster and Kroil
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

JamesCalvinIII
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Re: 67 Fuel line fixed!! but still no gas to carbs?? please help

Unread post by JamesCalvinIII » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:49 pm

Okay so I repaired the fuel lines, they hold pressure fine,

but I'm not getting fuel to the carbs,

It was working a few weeks ago then died out

I have a fuel filter behind the rear drivers tire, I can phyically suck gas from the tank to where the line meets the fuel filter but when every things connected it won't pull fuel to filter.

The fuel pump probably only has about 5 miles on it, My guess is a faulty fuel pump, even though its brand new... is there any way to test it?

please any suggestions would be welcome

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