Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

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Corvair_Jedi
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Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

I have been fighting with my 63 Turbo for almost a year now. When I first bought the car it ran, but barely. So I isolated a bad set of points and replaced them with an XR700. From there I realized that I wasn't getting any fuel pressure, and my tank was filthy, so I replaced every fuel component. From there it would still struggle to run so I sent the carb off to American Pi for a rebuild.

I still can't get the car to run reliably, most of the time it just cranks. If it does start to run it will not stay running or idle.

Please help! I just want to share this car!

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acarlson
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by acarlson » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:33 pm

I assume you've double checked your XR700 to make sure the shutter is squarely in the middle of the light sensor. You need to be careful when you press the shutter on the distributor shaft. The XR instructions say to press till it stops but if you do that the shutter will nick the top of a tab sticking up from the dizzy points plate - at least it did on my LM dizzy. Also I assume you're running the XR using the resistor wire or the external resistor - a requirement for the 700. You don't need the turbo to run the engine - mine doesn't work and I still drive my Corsa just fine (more like 110 HP then 180). Since you've ruled out the carb as the problem I'd guess you're still having timing or ignition issues. Timing should be 24 degrees unless you have the Clarks Retard/Vacuum Advance part installed then timing should be 18 degrees.

Alec
1965 Regal Red Corsa 4 Speed Turbo Convertible

Corvair_Jedi
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:36 pm

I will triple check my XR. I haven't ever been able to really set the timing. Is there a way I can get close without an engine at idle? When it does run it sounds strong. For a while it would just high idle and die.

Corvair_Jedi
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:33 pm

The XR looks to be set right. I was able to verify that around TDC the rotor is pointing towards the number one plug. I verified that every wire has spark,and the coil is sparking. Not only visually, but with an elbow..

Going4joe
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Going4joe » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:14 pm

If it's an ignition issue (weak spark) maybe your distributor is bad? If it's a fuel issue- did you check to see if you have particles in the gas tank that need to be cleaned out? That bad stuff could be getting sucked into your fuel system and intermittently cause it to not start or stall or run like crap.


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Going4joe
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Going4joe » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:18 pm

Somehow after rereading this I didn't catch the fact you may have replaced your fuel tank - so I assume everything is good there! My bad.


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Corvair_Jedi
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:22 pm

Thank you! But yes, I did replace the entire fuel set up. I have had issues with fuel pressure not staying constant. But currently I am running out of a red gas can with brand new pumps and regulator. I know I am getting fuel, if I hold the choke plate closed then open it, fuel will pour out.

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bbodie52
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by bbodie52 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:32 pm

I would suggest backtracking and confirming every aspect of the ignition system operation. Once that has been accomplished, if the engine will not start, you can move on to troubleshooting the carburetor (your comment about a flooding carburetor when you open the choke is troubling. The Carter YH has a poor reputation). The LED illuminates at the firing point and can be used as a static timing aid. You can follow the instructions to set the position of the distributor to the point where the LED indicates triggering the coil when the crankshaft pulley is statically positioned at 24 degrees BTDC. With timing properly verified and the other Crane Cams system troubleshooting steps completed, you will be able to move on to troubleshooting the fuel system.

By the way, did you ever attempt to locate a local CORSA club chapter in your area? I had mentioned this in an earlier post. Experienced Corvair owners from a local club may go a long way in hands on troubleshooting on your temperamental Spyder.

:link: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11594&p=79013&hili ... and#p79013

TIMING: You can static time the engine without the engine running. Position the crankshaft pulley timing mark in alignment wit the 24 degree mark on the compression stroke for cylinder number 1 (rotor pointing to spark plug wire terminal for cylinder one). Page 11 of the attached installation manual mentions the use of the new diagnostic LED on the XR700.
ENGINE WILL NOT START
1. Observe the diagnostic LED while cranking the engine. If the LED blinks, the optical trigger and power connections are okay. If the LED does not blink, proceed to check electrical connections and optical trigger as explained in the following sections.

2. Pull the high voltage coil wire out of the distributor and connect it to a test spark plug or place the wire 3/8” away from ground. Crank the engine. If sparks fire, the problem is in the secondary system. Possible causes: rotor left out, rotor, cap, or spark plug wires defective, or timing or phasing is off (optical trigger not properly aligned, distributor was moved or plug wire firing order was changed).

3. If there are no sparks, connect a test light between COIL- (negative) terminal and ground. Crank the engine. If the light flashes on and off, the trigger and module are okay, but the coil may have failed. Try another coil.

4. If the light does not flash, repeat test in step 2 with a known good coil. Try disconnecting any wires to COIL other than the yellow wire from the Crane module. The only extra wire normally connected to COIL- is the tach wire (or Lucas diode wire). If the light still does not flash, the module may have failed.

ROUGH OR INTERMITTENT OPERATION
1. Improper phasing is the most likely cause of rough running on new installations. Check phasing according to instructions in the section on Completing the Installation.
2. Check for disconnected or cracked vacuum hoses, stuck PCV valve, or clogged fuel filter. These problems may cause symptoms similar to ignition trouble.
3. Check electrical connections and optical trigger as explained in the above sections. Check for loose or corroded connections and broken wires. Try a different ground connection point on the engine block or chassis. Check distributor for loose or misaligned parts in optical trigger assembly or advance mechanism.
If you suspect a fuel system issue, after confirming the ignition system, the following book may be very helpful. It goes well beyond the information provided in the shop manual.

How to Identify and Rebuild Carter YH Carburetors Used on Corvair Turbocharged Engines Paperback – April 26, 2010
by Bob Helt (Author)
:link: https://www.amazon.com/Identify-Rebuild ... =carter+yh
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You should also verify fuel pressure AND fuel volume from the fuel pump, following the procedures in the shop manual.
Attachments
Crane Cams XR700 Optically Triggered Installation Instructions.pdf
Crane Cams XR700 Optically Triggered Installation Instructions
(3.38 MiB) Downloaded 8 times
Brad Bodie
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:46 pm

I haven't yet got in contact with a local chapter. I am a bit embarrassed of where I have the car, but I might need to call for reinforcements very soon. I have been working on the problem for almost a year! I just can't seem to get it right.

I have purchased and almost memorized Bob Helts book. It has helped tremendously, as have recommendations from American Pi.

The Crane XR700 is blinking, and was verified by FAST. I sent it in a few months ago to verify its operation. I have tried the troubleshooting steps and can verify I have spark. The only thing that keeps kicking me is fuel and timing. I just don't understand why sometimes it'll fire on the first attempt to crank and other times it won't even cough. Then sometimes it'll run strong then just die. Would timing affect that?

chris
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by chris » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:31 pm

Grasping at straws here, but does it have a harmonic balancer? If so, I wonder if maybe the rubber is going (or has gone) bad? Hopefully you can hook up with some local Corvair peeps because they are a world of help, believe me!

cwhunt
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by cwhunt » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:36 pm

How good are your spark plugs. I know my turbo engine runs rich so they get dirty real quick. You also might have a hard time starting your engine due to flooding. Before I fixed my yh carburetor I would have to wait and hour or two before I could get it to run again after I shut it down on my first trip. I fiddled with the discharge needle and got a good seal on the cover. If you are concerned with fuel being delivered to the carb. After cranking the engine take the top cover of the carb and see if there is fuel in there.

I have to crank a good 5 to 7 seconds before my engine starts sputtering and then running.

With regards to timing, check to see if your timing retarding unit is in good order. When I first got mine it was stuck and push timing way off.

Also check the operation of the choke. Choke valve should be closed down blocking air on cold start ups and open during warm engine start ups.

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bbodie52
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by bbodie52 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:44 pm

You might also check the condition of the metal contacts inside the plastic shell of the electrical multi-connector (near the voltage regulator). The aging multi-connector is exposed to heat, vibration, and moisture that can cause corrosian and poor electrical continuity. This could result in intermittant connectivity or high electrical resistance internally within the connector. If voltage to the coil and XR700 module is intermittant or if voltage is low, the ignition system may be adversely affected.
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:28 am

I just replaced all the spark plugs and rotor with brand new parts. It still had no change in how it was acting. I don't know if it has a harmonic balancer, but I'll check tonight!

I will check the voltage at the coil, and go over that connector as well. I have a brand new engine harness ready to be installed, but I didn't want to add more variables into the car yet

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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by 64powerglide » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:51 am

Hot wire it, that will bypass the wiring harness, run a hot wire from the battery to the plus side of the coil. If it still doesn't start the wiring harness is probably good.
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by Corvair_Jedi » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:01 pm

I ran a jumper from the battery to the coil, with no change. I did run another compression test with not inspiring numbers;

1 110
2 115
3 118
4 100
5 100
6 100

Also I have been getting amazing support from Ray at American Pi, just saying this community is amazing!

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bbodie52
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Re: Please Help! 63 Turbo just won't run!

Unread post by bbodie52 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:03 pm

At least it reflects even wear and relatively balanced cylinders, with no catastrophic mechanical failures.

Have you checked carefully for vacuum leaks, including that big round turbo outlet hose between the turbo and the crossover tube to the two intake manifolds?
Brad Bodie
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