1964 four door automatic project by remote

Show of your ride, keep track of your project, watch as others progress on their projects
joefarmer
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Tyler

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by joefarmer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:49 am

I'm right there with you! About to place my order for rings, lifters, seals, and bearings this week. Hoping that a great car is built around a solid rebuilt drivetrain!
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
Follow along at:
https://www.corvairforum.com/forum/view ... 52&t=12693

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by bbodie52 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:25 am

Ecklund wrote:...Since the rule pump is shot anyway he is recommending an electric pump. Sounds right.

Hand brake cables need replacement, speedo cable, carbs need R&R. In addition to a complete brake and bearing rehab...
The condition of the front and rear brake cables should be inspected, and the pulleys should be checked too. These plastic pulleys can become brittle and can fracture with age. All components are available from Clark's Corvair Parts.

A Corvair Powerglide automatic transmission DOES NOT HAVE A PARK POSITION to lock the transmission, unlike most other automatic transmission cars. Because of this, the emergency/parking brake system is critically important, in that it is the only system on the car that will prevent it from rolling away when parked! A faulty cable can snap without warning.

The mechanical fuel pumps are pretty good too, and have been proven over a 50+ year period of time in many thousands of Corvairs. Since they draw fuel through a long fuel line from the fuel tank, the condition of the two short sections of rubber fuel line at each end of the steel tubing (tank and engine) should be checked. A crack or small leak in one of these hoses may not be obvious, since this fuel line is a suction line and not under pressure. A leak in one of those hoses can greatly reduce the pump volume delivered, since the pump will have difficulty drawing the fuel from the tank.

A mechanical fuel pump should be tested for both pressure and volume delivered, following the procedure in the shop manual. The pressure may test OK, but a leaky fuel line from the tank can make a functional fuel pump look like it is faulty, when the problem may actually be an air leak in the delivery fuel line from the tank.

A replacement mechanical fuel pump is much less costly than conversion to an electric fuel pump system. You can usually buy two mechanical fuel pumps, and keep the second as an emergency spare in the trunk that is easily replaced if needed. The cost for those two replacement mechanical fuel pumps can be much lower than a new electric fuel pump system.

Electric fuel pumps push fuel much better than drawing it from long distances, so if you do install an electric fuel pump it should be installed in a location near the fuel tank. A pressure safety switch should power the pump. These safety switches are similar to an engine oil pressure switch. They are wired to provide voltage to the electric fuel pump only when the engine is being cranked or when it is running (producing oil pressure to turn the fuel pump switch on), but will turn the pump off if the engine shuts down for any reason.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=148
Image

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=65
Image

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=66
Image
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:37 am

Nice post Bodie, thanks.

Mechanic mentioned both front and rear cables for the hand brake. Will ask him about the pulleys.

I tend to agree with your reasoning about the mechanical fuel pumps. But he's got a thing about not being able to rely on the mechanical ones so... Figure its a difference that I don't really have much invested with either way, and he does so...

Excellent info and documentation regarding the electric pumps. Will post follow up on how pump functioned.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:53 am

joefarmer wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:49 am
I'm right there with you! About to place my order for rings, lifters, seals, and bearings this week. Hoping that a great car is built around a solid rebuilt drivetrain!
Your experience with your very similar car has completely informed my own.

I had just been reading your post about how you'd taken it out for a drive resulting in the white smoke of death. Right after that I had a call with my mechanic in SF. He says its his opinion that with his inspection, the compression and leak down tests, the length of time the car had been sitting and the high milage on the engine that I needed a basic re-ring and head R&R if I wanted a car that would be a reliable driver.

Before reading your post I would have suggested he try and dump some goo in the cylinder and try and break loose the ring and to just get it running and I'll tow it back to SoCal. But after reading your post and you having such a similar car I simply agreed to his proposed course of action.

I look forward to reading about your post mortem to see what was the ultimate failure in your engine.

Mostly what having to do a rehab of the drive train has done is to possibly force a delay in addressing the appearance issues of the car.

Good thing is that there is little if any structural rust. Floor is solid but its needs cleaning and carpet. Was going to use that dyna mat stuff to reduce noise.

Will post as I get more info.

But you please do keep posting. Maybe I'll avoid more problems following along with your project.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by bbodie52 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:17 pm

Ecklund wrote:...I tend to agree with your reasoning about the mechanical fuel pumps. But he's got a thing about not being able to rely on the mechanical ones so... Figure its a difference that I don't really have much invested with either way, and he does so...
An electric fuel pump is still a mechanical pump... just driven by an electric motor instead of the engine. But if it fails, which would be easier to replace in a roadside repair? I have had ten Corvairs in my family since 1961. I've driven them across country, coast to coast, numerous times. Also had two Corsas in Germany with me while we were stationed with the Air Force there.. and drove them at some pretty high speeds on the autobahn. They supported my family just fine. On the return I direct shipped one to Los Angeles and shipped the other to New Jersey. The Corsa coupe was picked up at the shipper in New Jersey and driven to Georgia, and then to Los Angeles in the middle of summer... fully loaded with my wife and two kids and our luggage... no breakdowns!

I have never yet had a mechanical fuel pump failure!
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:34 pm

bbodie52 wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:17 pm
Ecklund wrote:...I tend to agree with your reasoning about the mechanical fuel pumps. But he's got a thing about not being able to rely on the mechanical ones so... Figure its a difference that I don't really have much invested with either way, and he does so...
An electric fuel pump is still a mechanical pump... just driven by an electric motor instead of the engine. But if it fails, which would be easier to replace in a roadside repair? I have had ten Corvairs in my family since 1961. I've driven them across country, coast to coast, numerous times. Also had two Corsas in Germany with me while we were stationed with the Air Force there.. and drove them at some pretty high speeds on the autobahn. They supported my family just fine. On the return I direct shipped one to Los Angeles and shipped the other to New Jersey. The Corsa coupe was picked up at the shipper in New Jersey and driven to Georgia, and then to Los Angeles in the middle of summer... fully loaded with my wife and two kids and our luggage... no breakdowns!

I have never yet had a mechanical fuel pump failure!
Well said. Completely agree with your position, reasoning and anecdotal evidence/support. The mechanic is an older guy and clearly has a very specific view of a few things. As long as his quirks aren't necessarily negative, eh, he can have his way.

But I definitely agree with you thoughts about the value and practicality of the 'traditional' fuel pumps.

Your mention of driving the Corvair at high speeds and also fully loaded. Were any of the Corvair's you had that were driven at high speeds Coupes or four doors? How was the wind noise at high speeds? With the engine spinning up pretty high at speed for extended periods did it consume a lot of oil?

Intend on using the Corvair as a back up daily driver and while much of the traffic in LA is beyond stupid, I'm sure there will be opportunities to run in the low to mid 80s for at least half an hour of more. The top end and heads are getting an R&R so the oil control should be close to how a stock car operated.

Picking it up when I go on leave in late April. Should be a fun car.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

User avatar
n8rwaswrong
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:58 pm

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by n8rwaswrong » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:16 pm

Thank you for the updates and photos. I am sure you will enjoy building this car into something you and your family will love to drive Not to mention the gas station conversations it will create . Enjoy.

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by bbodie52 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 am

Ecklund wrote:Your mention of driving the Corvair at high speeds and also fully loaded. Were any of the Corvair's you had that were driven at high speeds Coupes or four doors? How was the wind noise at high speeds? With the engine spinning up pretty high at speed for extended periods did it consume a lot of oil?
Much of the driving on the Autobahn in Germany was in the right lane (cruising lane) doing about 75-80 mph. Dangerous to spend much time in the left lane (passing lane) since fast movers can come up behind you — flashing headlights — REAL FAST! I do remember returning from Stuttgart, heading for home in Kaiserslautern with the top down doing about 95 mph for quite a while. The Germans were often fascinated with the Corvairs!

Coupe was reasonably quiet — most of the noise came from the kids! ::-): Blew a fan belt once. No excessive oil usage from either car. Had the right rear wheel bearing fail in Cheyenne, WY on the coupe, and in Germany on the convertible. No other significant mechanical failures. Blew a hole in a piston on another 1965 Corsa turbocharged coupe on a hot Southern California day back in 1971, but that was at the end of an extended period of boost, near the top of a lengthy uphill highway grade. The car was probably detonating, but I never heard it (windows down). I was 18 and not paying attention, until the engine produced a "hole in one" (piston). :sad5: :angry:

The Corsa coupe did real well on the hot 1983 cross-country drive from Atlanta to Los Angeles over a three day run. Usually cruising at about 70 mph. I remember trying to use a pay phone in Needles, California and found the phone handset so hot I needed a rag to hold it. The family was hot, but the car never had any sign of distress or overheating!

Image
1965 Corvair Corsa Convertible 140hp 4x1 - Spring 1980 - Base Housing, just after it was repainted red and a new convertible top was installed. Taken in the parking lot behind base housing at Hanscom Air Force Base. Massachusetts, just before shipment to Bremerhaven, Germany from Bayonne, NJ.

Image
Our 1965 Corvair Corsa coupe, 140hp 4x1 - Summer 1981 — in my father's driveway at 124 Whitworth Street, Thousand Oaks, California just prior to a trip to Lake Tahoe and on to New Jersey, to ship the car to our assignment location near Ramstein AB, Kaiserslautern, Germany.

Image
Engine Compartment of our 1965 Corvair Corsa coupe, Summer 1981. THIS IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO ROUTE FUEL HOSES! THE FAN BELT CAN EASILY FLIP OR BREAK AND DAMAGE THE FUEL LINES. INSTANT FIRE HAZARD!!!
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:08 am

n8rwaswrong wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:16 pm
Thank you for the updates and photos. I am sure you will enjoy building this car into something you and your family will love to drive Not to mention the gas station conversations it will create . Enjoy.
Unfortunately the pics I get are second hand as taken by the garage assistant when they decide to take and send them. I have been asking for a pic of the rear of the car and the interior head liner. As we move forward we'll see.

Being new to Corvair's its been interesting to learn about their quirks and also what has sustained interest in them all these years.

My last 'old' car was a '68 Eldorado. There seems to be some evidence that I am drawn to odd GM cars.

Your post and thoughts here are appreciated.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:14 am

bbodie52 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 am
Ecklund wrote:Your mention of driving the Corvair at high speeds and also fully loaded. Were any of the Corvair's you had that were driven at high speeds Coupes or four doors? How was the wind noise at high speeds? With the engine spinning up pretty high at speed for extended periods did it consume a lot of oil?
Much of the driving on the Autobahn in Germany was in the right lane (cruising lane) doing about 75-80 mph. Dangerous to spend much time in the left lane (passing lane) since fast movers can come up behind you — flashing headlights — REAL FAST! I do remember returning from Stuttgart, heading for home in Kaiserslautern with the top down doing about 95 mph for quite a while. The Germans were often fascinated with the Corvairs!

Coupe was reasonably quiet — most of the noise came from the kids! ::-): Blew a fan belt once. No excessive oil usage from either car. Had the right rear wheel bearing fail in Cheyenne, WY on the coupe, and in Germany on the convertible. No other significant mechanical failures. Blew a hole in a piston on another 1965 Corsa turbocharged coupe on a hot Southern California day back in 1971, but that was at the end of an extended period of boost, near the top of a lengthy uphill highway grade. The car was probably detonating, but I never heard it (windows down). I was 18 and not paying attention, until the engine produced a "hole in one" (piston). :sad5: :angry:

The Corsa coupe did real well on the hot 1983 cross-country drive from Atlanta to Los Angeles over a three day run. Usually cruising at about 70 mph. I remember trying to use a pay phone in Needles, California and found the phone handset so hot I needed a rag to hold it. The family was hot, but the car never had any sign of distress or overheating!

Image
1965 Corvair Corsa Convertible 140hp 4x1 - Spring 1980 - Base Housing, just after it was repainted red and a new convertible top was installed. Taken in the parking lot behind base housing at Hanscom Air Force Base. Massachusetts, just before shipment to Bremerhaven, Germany from Bayonne, NJ.

Image
Our 1965 Corvair Corsa coupe, 140hp 4x1 - Summer 1981 — in my father's driveway at 124 Whitworth Street, Thousand Oaks, California just prior to a trip to Lake Tahoe and on to New Jersey, to ship the car to our assignment location near Ramstein AB, Kaiserslautern, Germany.

Image
Engine Compartment of our 1965 Corvair Corsa coupe, Summer 1981. THIS IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO ROUTE FUEL HOSES! THE FAN BELT CAN EASILY FLIP OR BREAK AND DAMAGE THE FUEL LINES. INSTANT FIRE HAZARD!!!
Some very nice cars!

Thanks for the first hand real world experience with these cars.

The real axle bearings are definitely on the list before I drive the 969 anywhere.

That 140 would look pretty good in the engine bay of my '64 969. How tough of a swap could it be...?
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:27 am

Received a couple new pics today of the '64 969 PG project.

As is obvious in the pictures the body paint is essentially gone and there is a 'patina' of substantial surface rust that took the place of the paint. I watched a few Youtube videos of people using diluted vinegar solution to remove virtually all the rust and leaves the useable metal panel.

The exterior chrome appears to be in decent shape and mostly all there.

The engine will get a good clean with the re-ring and head R&R but it looks like its all there.

is there any source of dash pads that doesn't involve me being separated from $400?
Attachments
Corvair right rear.jpg
Corvair engine bay.jpg
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by bbodie52 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:25 pm

Ecklund wrote:...That 140 would look pretty good in the engine bay of my '64 969. How tough of a swap could it be...?
The 140 hp engine will bolt right in to a 1964 Corvair, but the engine compartment perimeter shape is a mismatch, as is the rear engine mount. All of the upper perimeter sheet metal would need to be transplanted from an EM engine to the 140 hp (1965-1969) engine, and the necessary cut-outs for the secondary carburetors would have to be made. A 1964-style rear engine mount would need to be fitted to clear the harmonic balancer and match the rear rubber engine mount. The 140 hp LM engine charging system is an alternator, so the voltage regulator and wiring harness would need modification, or the EM generator could be fitted, along with an EM oil filter adaptor.

The 1964-1969 110 hp engine and 1965-1969 140 hp engine is very similar. The main differences in the 140 hp engine are big-valve heads with four carburetor mounts to accommodate the 4x1 carburetor setup. Also dual exhaust and 4x1 air filter assembly. All of this provides better breathing at the top end, with similar performance until the secondary carburetors open up (progressive throttle linkage).
Alternator vs Generator Adaptor.jpg
Corvair Rear Engine Mount Brackets.jpg
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:07 pm

Excellent post!

Love the idea of adapting improvements from later models or just newer technology to a car that was innovative for its day.

As the '64 is getting, among other things, a re-ring and head rehab I'm hoping to get some miles on the car before doing a swap. But keeping an eye out for a complete 140 doesn't seem wrong. Would want to add some C.I. to the 140 along with the swap.

Any issues with the EM vs the LM with the transaxle or trans with a 140 EM swap?
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by bbodie52 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:37 pm

The 1964 differential must remain. The 1965-69 differential is a mismatch for the 1964 suspension.
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

Ecklund
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:49 am

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by Ecklund » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:01 am

bbodie52 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:37 pm
The 1964 differential must remain. The 1965-69 differential is a mismatch for the 1964 suspension.
Got it, thanks.

Will look for a complete engine/diff 140.

What about the PG trans? Any significant difference? It would be a rebuild in any case, with a low rpm hook-up converter.

Thanks again. Very interesting and helpful posts.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 7490
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: 1964 four door automatic project by remote

Unread post by bbodie52 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:29 am

The Powerglide torque converter and flex plate will bolt right in on the 140 hp Corvair engine. You will need to remove the clutch pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft, and substitute the torque converter bell housing for the clutch bell housing.

Image
Image
Powerglide Bell Housing

Image
Image
Manual Transmission Clutch Bell Housing

You would need a Powerglide transmission coupled to a 1964 Powerglide differential. The 1964 differential has the needed anchor points for the transverse leaf spring found only in the 1964 Corvair.
1964 Corvair Camber Compensator.jpg
:chevy:

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ge=TECH-13
Image

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=135
Image
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

Post Reply

Return to “Member's Rides, Projects, and Builds”