Memoirs of a Monza

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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:30 pm

Sorry haven't posted in a while. Had a ton of other things going on! Here's where I'm at currently:

- The engine is completely torn down (case split) and everything labeled / bagged right down to the oil dipstick
- Working on cleaning up the case halves, heads, and other major components using purple power and carb cleaner along with a wire brush
- Made a "shopping list" through Clarks which will be bearings, rings, gasket set, and lifters at minimum, depending on cost I may elect to replace the pistons, pushrods, and valve springs as well. Plan to leave the valve guides and seals as is (just a healthy cleaning and reassembly)
- Will be looking for a harmonic balancer and a new rear engine mount as well to replace the crank pulley that was installed incorrectly
- Pulled the wiring harness, battery, and voltage regulator from the engine bay and have brushed it down to be painted with rustoleum black

Will post some photos soon.

........ taking donations for my Clarks order as well. I'm learning quickly that Corvairs can be costly :eek:
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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bbodie52
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by bbodie52 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:27 am

8409 signifies it's from the late 164 CI engines, regardless of HP.

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It is interesting that your probable 1965-67 164 CI 110 hp engine was fitted somewhere along the way with an oil cooler from an early (1960 - 1962) engine that used a folded fin design. Several stock oil coolers were included with different Corvair engines over the years. The design that utilizes the 12 plate oil cooler is likely the best bet to improve oil cooling over some earlier designs with less heat transfer capability. The earliest design looks like a finned radiator. This design was also good as it promoted better heat transfer to the passing cooling air. However, the tight folded fin design is somewhat difficult to keep clean and unblocked by dirt, leaves, etc., and an oil cooler that is blocked by dirt cannot transfer heat, since air cannot pass through the blocked cooling fins. GM likely changed the design to reduce production costs, but the difficulty with keeping the early design clean may also have been an incentive. The oil cooler in your engine is an excellent design for effective heat transfer, as long as you keep it clean.

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As shown in the 1961 shop manual below, there is an access plate under the generator/alternator area. It is supposed to allow access for periodic cleaning, but it is often neglected. Removing the cover from the shroud and cleaning regularly is a good idea.

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:chevy:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:43 pm

Thanks Brad! I plan to clean the existing oil cooler and judge how it looks afterwards. :ty:

Some pressing questions that I need to get answered before moving forward:

1. Is there a big difference between Clarks, California Corvairs, Mike's Corvair Parts? There are major price differences, but perhaps there is a reason behind these? Any opinions on who to use and who to avoid?

2. A half dozen of my head studs pulled out of the case during disassembly (only the tops, not the ones that go to the rockers). Do these have to be replaced with oversized studs as Clarks suggests, or am I ok to clean the threads and go back in with the originals? Do these studs need antiseize, or loctite, or anything special like that? For that matter, what bolts get antisieze and which don't? This aluminum business is starting to make me a little anxious... :redface:

3. Can I replace my lifters without replacing the cam? Several of the lifters feel "weak" (I can operate with my index finger) and I would prefer to replace them all, however a new cam is out of my price range for this rebuild. What's the best course of action here?

4. What is the rule on rods and mains bearings? Do I order standard, 0.001, 0.002, or what? No clue on this or what the designations really mean.

5. Piston rings... Grant, Deves, Cast, Moly? What is good for the price and what needs to be avoided? What is the standard bore on the 110? I can measure with some calipers and determine what size rings I need to go with, right?

6. Do I need to do anything with the crank and cam? Polished, turned, ground, no clue on this either. Any help is appreciated!

As of now I have decided on a budget friendly rebuild.... Rings, Main Bearings, Rod Bearings, Lifters (if can be done without new cam), and a full gasket set to button it up. The rest of my money for this project will be spent on a rebuilt PG, new exhaust setup ($436 from Clarks), revamped brakes, and minor suspension repairs (ball joints, bushings, etc). As I mentioned in my introduction post I have a wife (stay at home mom) and little girl, so even though I'm super pumped about this project I have to watch my spending. Gotta keep food on the table!! The intention was to have under 5K in the whole thing (including the purchase price of the car), I'm beginning to wonder how feasible this is.

Here are pics that catch you up to where it stands right now. The case was covered in an inch of solid gunk; this is how it looks after a gallon of degreaser and carb cleaner... still some cleaning left to do before I'm happy with it.
Attachments
IMG_8811.JPG
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IMG_8814.JPG
IMG_8815.JPG
IMG_8816.JPG
IMG_8817.JPG
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Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:23 pm

Just bumping to see if I can get some answers on the questions below. What say you?

1. Is there a big difference between Clarks, California Corvairs, Mike's Corvair Parts? There are major price differences, but perhaps there is a reason behind these? Any opinions on who to use and who to avoid?

2. A half dozen of my head studs pulled out of the case during disassembly (only the tops, not the ones that go to the rockers). Do these have to be replaced with oversized studs as Clarks suggests, or am I ok to clean the threads and go back in with the originals? Do these studs need antiseize, or loctite, or anything special like that? For that matter, what bolts get antisieze and which don't? This aluminum business is starting to make me a little anxious... :redface:

3. Can I replace my lifters without replacing the cam? Several of the lifters feel "weak" (I can operate with my index finger) and I would prefer to replace them all, however a new cam is out of my price range for this rebuild. What's the best course of action here?

4. What is the rule on rods and mains bearings? Do I order standard, 0.001, 0.002, or what? No clue on this or what the designations really mean.

5. Piston rings... Grant, Deves, Cast, Moly? What is good for the price and what needs to be avoided? What is the standard bore on the 110? I can measure with some calipers and determine what size rings I need to go with, right?

6. Do I need to do anything with the crank and cam? Polished, turned, ground, no clue on this either. Any help is appreciated!
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
Follow along at:
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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:35 pm

Bumping one more time to see if I can get some answers (above) just prior to placing my order. Anybody got answers or opinions on these questions? If not, no worries! I will press onward and start putting this piece of aluminum back together again.

Thanks!!
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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GasDaddy140
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by GasDaddy140 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:04 pm

Hi JoeFarmer! I've used all of the Corvair vendors for different items, it's how the Corvair world is now. Clark's gets pretty pricey. But I've needed stuff real bad.

I wish I could see some of your stuff. I say clean the threads up, chase the threads and reuse those studs. I wouldn't worry about anti-seize. Clark's couldn't see your studs either.

I used Grant rings. If your pistons are standard bore, choose STD rings.
Is there a shop near you to check your crank and camshaft? How many miles do you think were on that engine? Good functional rebuild on your mind or something else? We all can't be in car magazines and phony hot rod TV shows you know-let it go. They never even drive their cars.

Most importantly though, just keep doing stuff! :chevy:
Alan Duquette
Rohnert Park, CA
"When in doubt...Hit the gas!" A.J. Foyt.

1965 Corvair Corsa (field find) I will build my ship that comes in.
1971 Dodge Sportsman "shorty" 318 van
2015 Nissan Juke S

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toytron
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by toytron » Mon May 01, 2017 9:19 am

Joe which questions were not answered?

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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon May 01, 2017 5:40 pm

Thanks fellas! Is it ok to run new set of lifters on old cam? I will check around to see if there is a shop that can polish crank and cam. When going back together are there any bolts that require antiseize?

Alan - to answer your question, I just want to have a reliable driving car to use once or twice per week. Not planning to replace every component (can't afford to!) and not trying to make this thing a hot rod. If it runs like it did in 1964 I will be a happy man!

I appreciate the help!
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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toytron
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by toytron » Mon May 01, 2017 5:51 pm

It was a hot rod back in 64!

Ed Stevenson

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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon May 15, 2017 7:12 am

Got the case halves back together this weekend. New main bearings, clean crank, clean cam. Used a dial indicator to measure backlash and lateral play, all within tolerance. Turns smooth and easy by hand even after torquing the case bolts to 45ftlb. Plan to blast the bell housing and install so I can stand on-end. Gasket set comes in Thursday then its re-ringing time.

Quick question - What do the numbers on the skirts of the cylinder mean? I have a different number on each cylinder, 110, 40, etc. Any idea on this?
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:06 am

Is it true that the exhaust valves do NOT require valve guide seals???
Ordered the full gasket set from Clarks and only got seals to go on the intake valves. Something doesn't seem right about just sticking a valve in place without a seal though....
What is correct protocol here?
Joe Farmer
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Gregory_Miller
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by Gregory_Miller » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:21 pm

That is correct, no valve seal on exhaust valves, they have enough trouble staying lubricated without them.

skipvair
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by skipvair » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:44 pm

Intake valves suck oil past the valve. Exhaust valves have positive pressure in the other direction and cant suck oil in


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joefarmer
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:55 am

Thanks! That's what I needed to know.

Once more quick question - The small wedges used to hold the valve to the valve spring... do they usually sit differently between the intake and exhaust valves? The intake valves have small gaps between the wedges (and the wedges sit above the spring cap) while the exhaust valve wedges come together completely around the valve stem (and sit flush with the spring cap). Photos attached. I took the springs back off and held the wedges together around the intake valve stem and the gaps are still there, so I don't think they will completely "hug" the intake valve stem regardless. I just want to make sure that my springs aren't going to come flying off when I crank this thing up....

Any opinions or experience with this?
Attachments
IMG_1327.JPG
Exhaust valve showing wedges completely encircling the valve stem
IMG_1328.JPG
Intake valve showing gaps between wedges
IMG_1329.JPG
Exhaust valve showing wedges flush with spring cap
IMG_1330.JPG
Intake valve showing wedges coming out of the top of spring cap surface
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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skipvair
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by skipvair » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:29 am

I will defer to someone with more recent recollection on it, but it appears something is not right on intakes to me.


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GasDaddy140
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Re: Memoirs of a Monza

Unread post by GasDaddy140 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:41 am

Hi Joe Farmer-interesting...I just checked a picture of my 140 heads valve springs and my EXHAUST wedges all had a gap like that, but not the intakes.
I'm no expert though. Nothing was going to fly off and hasn't since I started the engine.
Alan Duquette
Rohnert Park, CA
"When in doubt...Hit the gas!" A.J. Foyt.

1965 Corvair Corsa (field find) I will build my ship that comes in.
1971 Dodge Sportsman "shorty" 318 van
2015 Nissan Juke S

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