Electric Corvair

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1949chevy
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 1949chevy »

At the VA a year or so ago I read a car mag waiting for my appointment and it had the fastest car in the world...it was an electric car. I think in NY, LA and Chicago, UPS and other delivery trucks all have 100% electric trucks. In Norway, the #1 country to live in according to research, all new vehicles in 2025 will need to be electric powered. I still "thank everyone" in shopping parking lots that I see charging their cars or just getting out/in them. They are helping Mother Earth and folks with lung/breathing problems. As I told my cousin when she came to visit with me a couple of months back...with the planes not flying much, I noticed I have not gone thru a box of Kleenex in nearly 3 weeks now...a box used to last me 4-5 days at most. I noticed I am now going thru a box much quicker as more planes are now flying.

I had a chance to post my 68 L-79 Corvette getting on it on one of these forums that I had forgotten about... I would not trade that QUADRAJET sound of course for any electric car right now. A friend with a new ZO 6 asked why I did not sell my 68 and buy a fairly new used ZO 6 ( my doctor and attorney both want my 68). I told him I just love that QUADRAJET opening up...here is that 16-18 sec video...turn up the sound...crappy cell phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgBFh7m_45w
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by bbodie52 »

The large volume of high-current energy needed to support hundreds of thousands of public/commercial fast-rate vehicle charging stations, plus many-more 240 VAC home-based charging stations would be like adding many thousands of heat pumps/air conditioners (extended-duration operation) to the load on the national power grid. This type of long-duration heavy current load demand is something that non-fossil fuel energy sources (i.e. wind and solar power) simply cannot produce. In many parts of the country the power grid is already heavily stressed during peak hours, so adding a new energy demand like millions of electric vehicle charging stations will likely mean an enlarged infrastructure of electricity generation and distribution — which translates into large capacity power stations using fossil fuels or nuclear power to meet the demand. THE REDUCTION OR ELIMINATION OF INDIVIDUAL FOSSIL FUEL VEHICLE TAILPIPES WOULD SEEM TO TRANSLATE INTO AN INCREASING NUMBER OF FOSSIL FUEL-BASED NATIONAL ENERGY GRID PUBLIC TAILPIPES (Unless new design nuclear power plants become acceptable to the public and cost-effective).

ELECTRIC CAR CHARGING: THE BASICS YOU NEED TO KNOW

:link: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... ed-to-know
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joelsplace
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by joelsplace »

Except that most electric cars will be charged at night while at home during the lowest power demand times. IF they have smart chargers that won't just charge full blast as soon as everyone gets home.
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Deadwolf
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by Deadwolf »

joelsplace wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:26 pm Except that most electric cars will be charged at night while at home during the lowest power demand times. IF they have smart chargers that won't just charge full blast as soon as everyone gets home.
Actually with current models of the future grid the night will be the worst time to charge your EV. With the closing of many fossil fuel plants and the expansion of solar power once the sun goes down the grid will be short of power unless someone can come up with a battery technology that is big enough and efficient enough to work on the grid. Current battery systems capable of grid operation are not efficient at all. One plan was to actually use your EV as a source of power for the grid at night! :think:

Now a question for all the green energy advocates. If you install solar panels and they capture energy from the sun that would normally be reflected back out into space does this not cause global warming? Energy can not be destroyed, it can only be converted, normally to heat! So if you keep energy that would normally be reflected back out of the atmosphere trapped in the atmosphere does this not destroy any idea of energy neutral.

Also if wind turbines are taking energy from the wind, does this over time slow down the prevailing winds and possibly cause changes in wind patterns, particularly if you are talking about 100's of thousands of wind turbines?
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doug6423
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by doug6423 »

Good points Deadwolf. For me I look at the waste we continue to generate trying to be ‘green’.

We bury or dump in the ocean nuclear waste, coal ash, and the wind turbine propellers (because they only last so many years). Not to mention all the waste that is created to make computer components.

The catch 22 of cleaner air but now more ground contamination. So 50 years from now the air will be clean, but we can’t drink the water because we buried all our waste...

The ying/yang of life. [emoji851]


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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by joelsplace »

Deadwolf wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:05 amActually with current models of the future grid the night will be the worst time to charge your EV.
I thought we were talking about adding a bunch of EVs to the current system. "Models" are wild guesses that are usually wrong especially when talking about the distant future. Think about how many people predicted we would have flying cars by 2000.

Good thoughts on solar panels. How much energy would normally be reflected vs absorbed and radiated?

I've been asking the question about moving the tail pipe for years.
Has anyone done a study on that. Clearly electric plants are lower pollution than ICs per energy output but does that make up for transmission and battery charging losses?
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1949chevy
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 1949chevy »

When it comes to VEHICLE POWER...when a country says NO INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES by 2025, when a company is working on a TOTALLY ELECTRIC POWERED PASSENGER PLANE...

When some sailor says the world is NOT FLAT....its round...it is hard to believe after 100's of years it being flat. But when that mast just keeps sinking the further away that other ship got...well

When my old mechanic at 87 years old was working on making his gasoline powered generator run itself off of its own produced electricity....hummmm. He also could not figure out why a car could not charge itself going down the road. And you say "WHAT". Pretty simple...do you remember the headlights on a 50-60's bike? It did not use batteries now did it ? NOPE. It got its power from a small generator that supplied the electricity by rubbing against the front tire. So Arthur said autos could charge their own battery just by attaching a super efficient generator to all four wheels. And I ask...why could you not put built in solar panels on cars now?

My next door neighbor, she and her engineer boyfriend, quit their nice jobs, rebuilt/modified a travel trailer with solar panels on it, and headed all the way across country. She and I still talk, they have a very nice website and have gone to many places and set up home in places no one else has ever seen out west. I asked her about how the solar panels, their ONLY source of heat and power were doing. She said the worse part of depending on just solar was 3-4 cloudy days. She said she did not like cold SHOWERS but she has had a few but most of the time they were comfortable. They have been gone over 5 years now. They are young and wanted to do this while young.

I am NOT an expert on solar by any means...know very little about it, but I do know BATTERIES ARE GETTING MUCH MUCH BETTER along with all electric producing equipment. We cannot think that its so inefficient that some of these naysayers think nothing will improve. Drive one of Henry's T-models and then jumb in a new BMW and see if anything has improved. By the way....MRS FORD did not drive a T-model....she drove a completely ELECTRIC POWERED car.

As to the negative about solar and wind. The Army base in NC has had many many deaths and sickness from cancer, etc. Why, there is a COAL FIRED PLANT there that dumps its coal ash close by and that had contaminated their water source. The metal in wind propellers can be re-cycled I am sure. If everyone put solar panels on their house and business, then power plants would barely be needed. Some power plants BUY ELECTRICITY from these efficient homes now that is not used...and by the way, overloading a power plant would be hilarious. As hot as it has been, we ALL WOULD BE MUCH BETTER OFF with an efficient use of the SUN.
1949chevy
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 1949chevy »

One more quick post....I know I know...nothing I do is a quick post.

In winter time, you can drive along the interstate that runs by the WORLD FAMOUS BILTMORE HOUSE here in Asheville, the largest privately owned house in America, and you will see on part of their property...THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of SOLAR PANELS...HUMMM. Just that is a site to see.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by erco »

Deadwolf wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:25 am EV's have a long way to go before I would consider one. I need something that I can drive coast to coast with stops for only fuel and a night in a hotel. I daily drive my V8 Silverado 1500 and won't buy a new gas car without a V8. I am a little disappointed in the towing characteristics of the 2014-1018 Silverado 1500 as it doesn't seem to have the get up and go the prior generation had with the same 5.3 Liter engine. The Corvair is actually only the second non V8 car I've owned. The first was a Miata. After driving my dads new Duramax 3/4 ton Silverado I think my next truck will be a 3/4 ton with Duramax. I like to be able to hitch up my trailer and drive 700 miles away to pick up a parts car and drive back all in one weekend.
You're missing out IMHO. I bought a used 2014 Nissan Leaf for $7K in 2017. $1000 in CA rebates. It's just for around town, max range is ~90 miles. It would be a bad choice for an only car, just like a Corvair. :chevy: We still have wife's ICE gasser for long trips (and my project 'Vair). I absolutely LOVE the Leaf. Great acceleration, fun to drive, comfy, zero maintenance, juice is 1/4 the price of gas, free charging all over town. I could sell the car now for more than I paid for it.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by joelsplace »

"When some sailor says the world is NOT FLAT....its round...it is hard to believe after 100's of years it being flat."
From my research virtually no one ever believed the world was flat. It was a derogatory term people used to make fun of others they thought were stupid. Of course that is if you can believe anything you read about history.
"When my old mechanic at 87 years old was working on making his gasoline powered generator run itself off of its own produced electricity....hummmm. He also could not figure out why a car could not charge itself going down the road."
I'm not sure what your point is here. You are making a joke, right? Or do you believe in perpetual motion?

"And I ask...why could you not put built in solar panels on cars now?" You certainly can but with the surface area of a car and full sunlight you might just make enough power to run the radio and computer but no where near enough power to drive the car. Look up solar powered cars and see what they have to do to move what barely passes for a car.
The best I found is a car that will supposedly go 50 miles on a 5-6 hour solar charge.
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Deadwolf
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by Deadwolf »

joelsplace wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:35 pm "When some sailor says the world is NOT FLAT....its round...it is hard to believe after 100's of years it being flat."
From my research virtually no one ever believed the world was flat. It was a derogatory term people used to make fun of others they thought were stupid. Of course that is if you can believe anything you read about history.
"When my old mechanic at 87 years old was working on making his gasoline powered generator run itself off of its own produced electricity....hummmm. He also could not figure out why a car could not charge itself going down the road."
I'm not sure what your point is here. You are making a joke, right? Or do you believe in perpetual motion?
Perpetual motion is not possible as long as you have any friction or resistive loading. That means bearings have to use 0 energy to spin, motors can not generate heat, the car has to be in a vacuum to avoid wind friction, and tires can have no friction on the road.
What you 87 year old mechanic was actually building is called a VAR motor that spins a regular generator, and it is theft of service if you get caught. You basically take a motor and use enough inductance to make the load shift a full 90 degrees and then it will run off of VARs which actually cost a utility money to generator as it still uses torque and is needed for voltage support on the grid particularly for running motors and capacitive loads. The guy who created the humming bird generator tried to market such a system and went to jail!
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erco
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by erco »

Accept it or not, like it or not, the number and percentage of electric cars will slowly and steadily increase. Just like Thanos, it's inevitable. The power grid and electric generation infrastructure will grow and improve. Not overnight. Slowly but surely. Amurcans hate change.

Power, lithium, battery & motor stocks will be the future moneymakers. Like it or not, Exxon-Mobil. Don't worry, we Corvair owners will still use a lot of gas. And oil. Lord knows, a lot of oil. So be kind to us.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by summersc »

Hey everyone.

I am new to the forum. I also have completed an EV conversion on my 64 convertible, myself and in my garage. I have been reading through this thread after looking around to see if anyone else has done a conversion. It seems very few have. I completed mine in July 2020 and I can tell all of you first hand, it is totally awesome. I never had the nerve to drive the car terribly far, or terribly fast especially with my family riding along. Old cars are just not as safe. So, since I always use it for short, local trips, and I love to tinker and engineer stuff, it seemed a perfect candidate. No longer do I have to start the car, let it run the gasoline intensive warm up routine for a few minutes, just to complete a 10-15 minute drive.

I also have had a lot internal debates, just like some in this thread. I worried about grid loading, or "just moving the tailpipe" or if the energy to make green tech is higher than the energy it could ever produce. I have worked through most, if not all of those concerns now and am certain and electric classic car is the right choice for me. Now, I can charge my car at work or at home, using mostly sustainable energy (meaning i pay extra to get power from the wind and solar sources we have near Portland OR) maybe once a week all summer and we drive it daily.

I added an under dash heater box to keep the window fog down. I installed seat heaters to keep us warmer. Its now a 3 season car, for the most part. I would say my heating system works as well as the stock system, at least. I completely changed the weight distribution of the car. It is now nearly 50/50. This means it handles much more like a typical car, but i gave up the super light steering. It also means the brakes need some pretty big modifications. The weight distribution during braking is now very front heavy, so care has to be taken to keep the rear wheels from locking up. The springs and dampers also had to be changed. I went with the SBC springs from Clarks in the front and springs from a 63 that I cut for the rear (I removed the leaf spring). I have yet to do any super dramatic driving to see how it understeers now. I will likely do that on a rainy day first.

I installed a 120hp Hyper 9 AC motor in the back. Its coupled to a 3:55 diff and a 3spd that I leave in 2nd gear (all the time, I don't shift). It means its not a rocket off the line, but very fun from 10-50mph and has a top speed of 77mph. All totally acceptable for me.

I used 7 salvaged battery modules form a 2012 tesla model S that was in an accident. I feel good about this, since I used something already manufactured and didn't demand more resources from the earth. These batteries are very resource intensive to manufacture. But... so is aluminum and folks seem ok with that. I calculate a range of 120miles. I only charge them to 85% to extend their life, so I would guess I get 90 miles at most on a charge. That is a week of going to work for me. I don't know the range just yet because my odometer has never worked and I haven't taken the time to figure it out yet. We have been just having so much fun this summer and fall, it hasn't been a priority.

I used a Orion2 BMS and a 2,5kW charger. I would not recommend using any Lithium Ion batteries without a battery management system. They are great for energy density (especially the tesla modules) but they are finicky and can be dangerous if not managed well.

Here are some pics. I hope this inspires some folks to give it a try. It was a fun challenge and very rewarding (though expensive). Also... I rebuilt my differential during the project. Now I can officially say, the car leaks more oil as a EV than it did running on gas. I guess that will be another winter project.
64 corvar ev.jpg
battery and electronics.jpg
battery modules.jpg
drivetrain.jpg
motor assembly.jpg
Last edited by summersc on Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 66vairguy »

erco wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:47 am Accept it or not, like it or not, the number and percentage of electric cars will slowly and steadily increase. Just like Thanos, it's inevitable. The power grid and electric generation infrastructure will grow and improve. Not overnight. Slowly but surely. Amurcans hate change.

Power, lithium, battery & motor stocks will be the future moneymakers. Like it or not, Exxon-Mobil. Don't worry, we Corvair owners will still use a lot of gas. And oil. Lord knows, a lot of oil. So be kind to us.
A good statement, except people like change AS LONG AS NOBODY MAKES THEM CHANGE - LOL.

This past weekend I was reviewing energy information as it concerns investments. I was amazed to learn that TEXAS is on track to become the leading state to produce GREEN ENERGY!! Yes the the "oil and natural gas" state is ALSO moving to green energy because it's becoming profitable!!! The cost of producing solar and wind generated energy is dropping to the point it's becoming profitable to make and export to other states. One thing you find a lot of in Texas is sunshine and wind! It will take years, but it is happening due to promising economics, not forced by oppresive rules.

The other surprise was the hydrogen has long been proposed as a replacement for hydrocarbon fuels for long haul trucks, aircraft, and clean electric generation - except for one problem --- now most hydrogen is produced by "dirty" or high carbon emission processes. However -- Saudi Arabia has announced they are building a new site to use solar energy to make clean process hydrogen and export it (via new and existing natural gas pipelines) to Europe. Now Europe buys a lot of Russian natural gas and needless to say aren't happy about being dependent on Russia for energy. So why use solar to make hydrogen for export! It's more economical than trying to export electricity over long distances. You make hydrogen in areas with good solar generating abilities, pipe it to other areas, then convert it back to electricity in clean power plants. Plus you could develop an infrustructure to fuel long distance trucks or short to mid range aircraft.

Of course it's always about the MONEY, but the economics of a cleaner energy future look promising. So much for the "green energy will kill the economy" doom and gloom some still insist on repeating. Sure there will be a few issues, but nothing is perfect and at least the world is moving in the right direction and the economy will prosper.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by erco »

@summersc: What a GREAT project! So cool to see your EM-EV conversion, please share some video when you can! I'm sure you saw this student project car below. Corvairs are great candidates for conversions. You're ahead of the curve and setting the pace!

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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by summersc »

erco wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:32 pm @summersc: What a GREAT project! So cool to see your EM-EV conversion, please share some video when you can! I'm sure you saw this student project car below. Corvairs are great candidates for conversions. You're ahead of the curve and setting the pace!

Thanks erco! I have seen that clip before. There is guy in California doing a conversion similar to mine... he has a youtube channel called Electrovair, i think.

I have a couple of short videos to show how quiet it is. It is hard to hear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2eNST2MC1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRAqNleRQmo

I appreciate the kind words. I am happy it turned out as good as it did and that I have the means and resources to tackle a project like this. I am feeling very fortunate. I have piles of pics and notes if there are other questions.
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