fitment of rear quarter patch

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GriffinGuru
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fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:52 am

Hi everyone. I'm finally attacking the rear quarters on my 64 convertible. I bought the quarter patches from Clarks.

Here is my problem: For starters the quarter is about a full 1/4" short of the panel seam below the door. I am debating on just really using a lot of seam sealer and goobing the gap, but I think it is too big of a gap to span that without it looking bad. So I think I will cut a strip of metal and weld it to the end of the patch panel so that the metal ends where I want it.

The bigger problem is that along the bottom of the rocker, the convertable models apparently square off a,little rather than continuing the round arc all the way to the pinch weld. So do I just hammer the very end down by the seam and ignore the arc along the rest of the lower quarter? I'm not sure how noticeable that will be after painting. I do not plan on installing the running boards (lower chrome trim) on the car. I'm just not sure I can get the panel to break a crease there. I am thinking of using some C-clamps and angle iron to hold the top portion of the panel straight and hammering the lower lip some hoping it will fold along the angle iron without making my panel bend funny or go concave along the bottom.

Before I eventually weld the panel on I will use some rust encapsulator on the inner region and paint that whole area with epoxy.
Attachments
100_1771.JPG
Here is the lower edge. Notice the panel stays on the arc, but the rocker comes in to meet the pinch weld at 90 degree angle. I will patch and fill the small hole on the inner panel. this is just mocked up with screws and clamps.
100_1770.JPG
My gap at the b-pillar seam below the door. Too big to fill with seam sealer in my opinion.
100_1769.JPG
This is what the under side looks like. It is crusty, but only two small holes near the B pillar seam in this inner beam so I think I will leave it as is and just patch the holes on the inner beam rather than try and do more drastic measures like replacing the inner panel etc.
100_1765.JPG
This is what I was starting with on the panel. It is rusted at the wheel well and dented as well. The motor is a future project and is just eye candy for now!
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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terribleted
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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by terribleted » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:30 am

This type issue is unfortunately a fact of life with the available repros. The forming is somewhat hit or miss. (I always try to find a good used section instead of using these repros) The last one of these sections I installed was not short at the lower front, but was not flanged sharply enough along the bottom and was ALOT more round up the door opening edge than yours is. The forward vertical edge should be quite sharp and the panel I got was more like pencil diameter round. I recently installed a lower rear fender section (same quality part as the 1/4 section you are working with) that was over 1/4" too long across the top with the bottom flange re-bent and section positioned to mate nicely to the lower flange and the wheel opening. I had to cut along the verticle door mating part of it and re-shape and re-weld it to make a good fit to the door. Cutting, reshaping, re-welding, and yes sometimes adding a bit of steel is often necessary to get a fit on these marginal panels. It would be nice to be able to buy better repro panels but currently these are all that is available. Clark's floor panels are excellent, but the early body panel sections they have are mediocre and quite varied in their shape. Some of the late model body sections are excellent and others not so much. I have had some success re-shaping the bottom flanges of the panels by clamping them in place and using a 5" or so brick splitting chisel to hammer the bend more square. Must be careful to hammer at an angle that is very square to the ground so as not to drive the bottom of the curved part of the lower panel upwards. Hope this helps...good luck.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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GriffinGuru
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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:21 pm

OK I think I understand the approach you used. Your way may have fewer side effects than what I was considering and better control of the panel shape. So you clamped the lower pinchweld to hold it in place and then worked the corner 90* inward toward the pinchweld to pull the lower rocker portion of the panel toward the pinchweld rather than trying to form a long brake and bend the panel that way. Your way sounds easier and for my car it is probably good to do that way. I am learning bodywork on it as I go. It will never be and is not a perfect desert preserved example anyway, so I am not afraid to get down and dirty with it by trial and error.

Oh, and incidentally, my door edge is a bit round as well. The "dogleg" portion at the base of the door you see I have already heated and hammered it further into the radius as it was basically shortcutting the bend and a quarter inch high through there. The rest of the door edge is a little rounder than the original as well, but I'm not sure if I want to fix it the way you did, or try to heat and hammer the edge into a better 90* like I did at the bottom.

The panel is not perfect but better than what I could fabricate from scratch. It sure has taken a lot of working to make it right. I didn't really look for used as I am in PA rust country and assumed most of what is available around me is probably just as rusted as what I cut out.
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by terribleted » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:01 pm

Clamp, wide brick splitting chisel, and hammer. Exactly!! On the last section like you have that I installed I actually left the original lower door opening part in the car and sectioned just behind it to keep the nice sharp angle out from the jamb onto the 1/4 (the car was not rusty right at the edge of the jamb. If your section looked like mine you have done a pretty nice job of reshaping it. The front fender patch I described above with the cutting and re-welding was near 3/8" too long from door opening to wheel opening and was also rounded so cutting, shaping, and re-welding the edge of the door opening was the only logical choice...especially when the detail at the wheel opening was lining up near perfectly at this position:)

By the way the Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, PA has LOTS of cars...I got some pretty nice steel sections from there only 6 weeks ago. If you had other needs Jeff at the Corvair Ranch might be able to help. For me it was a 14 hour drive each way, I am sure it would be more reasonable for you:)
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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GriffinGuru
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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am

So as a helpful guide for anyone else attempting this repair, I want to finish this thread to completion. So the other part of my repair entails the inner fender lip as well. Because there was a big dent across the side of the car, the inner lip was also bent. I fabricated the arch out of two pieces since the rusty areas were so large: The lip radius and the bottom corner. I had to do a lot of finessing since the dent is causing the lower portion of the wheel well to bow outwards and push the patch piece outwards as well. I hammered and manipulated the arch to a proper location. The next thing is that I need to make the rolled over lip portion of the inner fender as well. This will be from a separate piece since I would never have been able to bend that lip and inner fender arch tight enough from a single piece with any accuracy keeping the original shape. I will use the inside of my patch panel as a template to get the correct curving arch that will follow my inner fender.

For making my patches I use cardstock type paper like from old cereal boxes etc. and cut the paper to the shape I want. I then trace those templates onto the sheet metal and bend the metal to match the repair.
Attachments
100_1774.JPG
My inner fender so far. I am good with the distance and shape, now on to making the lip part that curls inward where the outer fender attaches.
100_1773.JPG
I had to trim much from this corner and bend the lower depression inward more. In order to bend the pressed corner, I had to cut two slits in the edge and re-weld after bending. Otherwise, whenever I bent the corner over to where I wanted at one end, the other end of the corner would just fold out in the other direction.
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by terribleted » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:28 pm

Yup that's how ya do it:) I often use the same material from softdrink 12 and 20 packs for patterning...20 packs yield a nice big piece. And yeah without WAY more equip than I have available, bending the wheel opening flange into a patch for the wheelhouse is not possible so 2 pieces is the key.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:44 pm

More of the process... ::-):
Attachments
100_1775.JPG
Traced the outline from the inside of the panel
100_1776.JPG
And a quick check on the wheel opening. I added a little more paper at the bottom after test fitting it, because where I traced on the panel it tapers away. I will need extra metal here to twist in some to meet the lower corner of the inner. I will add tabs along this piece before cutting it out, to aid in attaching to the wheel opening.
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:49 am

So it has been some time since my last post. I was busy with other things, but here is my progress so far. I'm done fabbing the metal, I put down some rust encapsulator and sanded the loose areas off (Permatex type, not POR15). Sprayed the inside of the panel and the inside of the fender area with epoxy primer. After it dries I will put the holes in it for the spot welds and then dremel the paint away at those points that will be welded to get a good weld surface without leaving too much untreated. Next post soon should finally be the welding!! I can't wait to get this off the floor and finally back on. It has been a learning experience, and I know how I will do the driver's side different for easier and better results.
Attachments
100_1779.JPG
The rest of the inner wheel lip is finished
100_1778.JPG
The inside of the panel is painted- I also added a small strip of metal to the "dogleg" portion to make up for the slightly short length. I remembered that it was myself that shortened that area early on in the process when fitting the panel because at first it was long there. As I got the rest of the panel to fit better, my "long" end was suddenly short!!
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by terribleted » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:39 pm

Good progress!! You have done about all you can in the area. Should make for a good repair.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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toytron
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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by toytron » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:15 am

Yes, thanks for the posts. It is looking good.

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GriffinGuru
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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:40 am

So I welded the panel on the other day and here are the results below. A little bit more welding and grinding in the wheel arch area is needed still. After that is complete I need to do the body filler. Many people on the FB body group prefer to spray epoxy primer first, then fill, then spray again rather than put filler on bare metal. In working on my rear section I put filler on metal, but this time I may try to spray first and put the filler on the primer.
Attachments
100_1781.JPG
I have a little bit of waviness on the beltline, which I think is manageable. I will try to dolly that working through the opening below the rear side window. If the metal will move enough, otherwise, it will be smoothed with filler.
100_1783.JPG
The welds are cleaned up some here. I'm torn on trying to improve the door gap. It is relatively straight, but with a more rounded edge than the original, and I'm not sure how anal I want to get with it when there is still so much more of the car to do. I may come back to this part later when the rest of the rough bodywork is done.
100_1782.JPG
My wheel lip is slightly off, and this is what I'll tackle next. I think I'll try and weld a small rod along the visible edge to where it starts to radius downward to make the edge even with the original curve.
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by terribleted » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:27 pm

I find that that panel goes in better if I splice below the side detail line of the car rather that using the stamped top of the replacement section. I get less warp and the styleline retains its shape. Well, it is in now and looks good. Too bad the replacement section is so poor. Can be a lot of work to get it just right.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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GriffinGuru
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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by GriffinGuru » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:04 pm

Yeah Ted, I'll do the patch panel for the driver side BELOW the beltline, and also not cut around the door gap, but just go up to it. I debated myself back and forth on whether to go above or below the body line. I was worried that if I go below the body line it will warp easier, whereas the folded edge of the panel above the body line will keep the shape more rigid.

In the end, 1000F from a weld arc will warp even a folded piece of metal anyway. In keeping the belt line lined up with the original line, my fender arch is now slightly high, but that should be easier to correct than a mis-aligned beltline would have been. :shhh:
It keeps me humble:
64 Corvair Monza convertible called Lucy (work in progress)

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Re: fitment of rear quarter patch

Unread post by terribleted » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:59 pm

The original steel is more rigid than the patch steel. The 1/4 line holds shape pretty well under the heat of the welder below the line I go about 1/2-3/4 inch below if I can and of course stich weld slowly keeping it cool all the time like always.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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