hey has that thing gotta turbo

[ironbruuu]

Hi Folks
I just picked up my first Corvair this past weekend a 1964 canadian built spyder coupe. In preparation for its arrival I have been absorbing as much vairness as possible. . This is a great site and thanks in advance to the admins and experts for all the input and sharing
cheers
James

[azdave]

Welcome! Where you from?

[bbodie52]

Welcome, James, to the Corvair Forum! Sounds like a rare Spyder you have acquired. Please post some pictures when you get a chance. Here are some production statistics that indicate just how rare your Canadian Spyder is!

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/prod.html

Early Model Corvair, Canada

1964 Corvair Spyder Production: Coupe — 502 Convertible — 154

Early Model Corvair, U.S.A.

1964 Corvair Spyder Production: Coupe — 6,480 Convertible — 4,761

Note: The Spyder did not become a distinct model until 1964. Consequently, 1962 and 1963 Spyder production is accounted for in the Monza figures. In 1962, 9,468 Monzas were built with the 150 horsepower, turbocharged Spyder package. In 1963, the number increased to 19,099.

[ironbruuu]

Hi Guys!!
Thanks for the welcome. I live on Vancouver Island in BC Canada. Here are some pics more to come. lots of questions too !!


Thanks for the info on the production numbers. Here are my id plates

[bbodie52]

I love the color! I'm so jealous!!

Where are you located? Are you in Canada or the USA? Can you tell us a little about you, your background and experience with classic cars, and your plans and goals for your Spyder? How would you assess your mechanical skills and knowledge? Telling us something about you will help us on the Corvair Forum to do a better job of communicating answers and suggestions for your questions.

[ironbruuu]

Hey Brad
I live on Vancouver island in BC, quiet close to Vancouver and Seattle. I have always been interested in all things mechanical and a gear head from birth. The car I purchased is perfect for me, as bodywork rust removal I neither have the tools space or desire to do ...that is pretty much all done.
To do:
++The engine needs a good tune, could be bad gas first step is a fuel filter (start with the easy stuff would have to replace it anyway)and then have a look at the carb

++Steering is very loose. will look at adjusting the steering nut to get rid of play and hope

++Front headlights don't work-- haven't had a chance to look at any electrical

++Got a great deal on some 70's Datsun rims ( American racing? I think). the bolt pattern fits... will pick up lug nuts for fitting.

++ Q. Do I have to do anything to the back of them to make them "clear" the rivets on my drums. I read a post on here somewhere warning against straight bolt on.

++Some interior and trim panels have to be installed all nos or new chromed so ready to go

++The turbo is in place but a pipe has been dis-connected if you look at the engine pic. This will be fixed :)

after I find out how.
More to come I am sure as the project continues.

[doctorwire]

Hey nice car. Might want to make sure the oil lines are connected to the turbo. If your turbo is good, it won't be for long without them.
Also, I don't see the oil line connector near the oil filter. I believe there should be a block that allows the sensor and oil line to be connected at the same point (at least that's how mine is). I would also check the block # to make sure it's a turbo block. 150HP block should have the suffix YR. If they swapped it for a 180HP it might have the suffix RL. If it is something different, someone may have just stuck a turbo on another engine.

[ironbruuu]

Hey Doc Will have a look at those items later today and will hunt down the block number. Sure as heck dont want to do any damage.
thanks for the heads up
cheers
James

Keener here..heres the engine plate

[doctorwire]

Wow, that's interesting. The block definitely did not start its life as a turbo engine. Perhaps someone changed some parts and made it similar to one hence the non-factory motor ID. It is not the original engine to the car, that's for sure.
I wouldn't feel comfortable running a turbo on it without knowing what the internals are like, what heads you have, etc. hopefully some of the guys will weigh in on this.

[gbarron]

Wow, that's interesting. The block definitely did not start its life as a turbo engine. Perhaps someone changed some parts and made it similar to one hence the non-factory motor ID. It is not the original engine to the car, that's for sure.
I wouldn't feel comfortable running a turbo on it without knowing what the internals are like, what heads you have, etc. hopefully some of the guys will weigh in on this.

Hey Doc...since this is a Canadian built Corvair what are the chances the engine was modified and the new code scribed on the block at the plant in Oshawa? It's a long shot, but possible. Looking at the missing parts though also makes me think someone added a turbo to a non-turbo engine.

Anyone else out there with a Canadian built turbocharged Corvair for comparison to James block code(s)?

[doctorwire]

That's totally possible, but as a fellow Canadian I'd hate to think that they would do such a hack job at the factory lol!
Check the distributor. If it is a proper pressure retard unit, the nipple when the vacuum hose attaches to should have a little bumped out ridge on it. A regular vacuum advance unit will just be smooth. Won't tell you much about the block but it is something else you can check before tearing into the engine.

[bbodie52]

I didn't notice the disconnected and missing oil feed line for the turbo when I glanced at the original picture, or the non-stock oil return line projecting up from the right head with a bolt plugging the tube. Without knowing the history of the turbo you will need to consider pulling the turbo and having a service check and/or overhaul done. The reason that the oil lines were disconnected is unknown. Oil leak? Seized turbine shaft and bearing? Damaged internal turbine components?

We have a good Corvair turbo mechanic on the Corvair Forum. See...

Turbo Rebuilding by Miniman82 - Great work!
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=6648

You may want to contact him via Private Message (PM) to discuss your new-found Spyder and its current, largely unknown, condition.



The original engine suffix code "Z" on a 1964 engine indicates a 95hp 164 CI engine configured for a Powerglide automatic transmission. As previously indicated, suffix code "YR", that was apparently scratched in by hand, would have been the correct code for a 1964 150hp turbocharged engine. In the picture, it looks like a harmonic balancer is present on the crankshaft, which is a sign that the crankshaft is likely a long stroke 164 CI crankshaft, and not an earlier year 140-145 CI engine (earlier 1960-1963 engine years also used suffix code "Z" on the 80hp automatic transmission engine) .

You should pull the spark plugs and run a compression check on each cylinder to get a quick "snapshot" of the condition of the pistons, rings, cylinders, head gaskets, and valves. You should also plan on replacing the spark plug wires, since the boots that normally seal the spark plug holes in the top shroud are missing, which allows cooling air to leak and decreases the effectiveness of engine cooling.

The correct cylinder head casting numbers for a 1964 150hp 164 CI engine should be one of the following...

3819904 Compression Ratio: 8.25:1
3856636 Compression Ratio: 8.00:1
3856638 Compression Ratio: 8.00:1
3886258 Compression Ratio: 8.00:1
3886259 Compression Ratio: 8.00:1





The distributor number should also be checked to confirm that it is the correct distributor for the 150hp turbo engine.

1964 Turbo: 1110314





Since, without oil, it is likely that the impeller and turbine are not able to rotate within the turbo housing. It is also possible that the exhaust has been modified to bypass the turbocharger. The illustrations below show the normal routing of the oil feed line, and the exhaust system (illustrations from the 1965 Corvair Assembly Manual).

[bbodie52]

Joining CORSA (Corvair Society of America) is another good way to learn more about Corvairs.


CORSA (Corvair Society of America) Chapter Locator
Locating a local CORSA chapter near you can be very helpful, and attending meetings, parties, Corvair shows, etc. can greatly add to the enjoyment of your Corvair
https://www.corvair.org/index.php?optio ... crmSID=3_u

Here is the Canadian CORSA club contact information...

CORSA Chapter Locator - Western Canada CORSA
Chapter ID: WCC
Organization Name: Western Canada CORSA

Street Address (Primary): 1750 Westminster Ave., Port Coquitlam, BC, Canada

Joel Rushworth - President - Vancouver Island regional director, info@westerncanadacorsa.com
Shaun McGarvey - Vice President - Lower Mainland regional director, shaun_mcgarvey@shaw.ca
Dave Beddome - Alberta regional director, dbeddome@shaw.ca
Les Honke - Manitoba regional director, webmaster, corvair@mts.net
Merv Krull - BC Interior regional director, krupross@sunwave.net
Paul McGroarty - Treasurer, pmcgroarty@shaw.ca

Website: http://www.westerncanadacorsa.com
Email (Primary): info@westerncanadacorsa.com

Membership Information - Come Join Our Group

Western Canada Corsa currently boasts a membership or of over 150 members with local representation in 6 different regions of Western Canada and associate members from the US Northwest! This combined with our own local email list server and WCC website gives members access to more information resources for Corvairs in Western Canada then is provided by any other organization. Basic membership is FREE so what are you waiting for?

Based on Vancouver Island, this club services the largest geographic area of any Corvair club ( Corsa itself excluded, of course) From the Pacific, east to Manitoba it covers 2,911,268 sq km (approx. 1,124,047 sq mi)

Membership dues are currently FREE for those living in Western Canada, until the next October after you join (this is our FREE TRIAL period) - then we'll ask for $20 (CDN) annually.

[bbodie52]

To do:
++The engine needs a good tune, could be bad gas first step is a fuel filter (start with the easy stuff would have to replace it anyway)and then have a look at the carb

++Steering is very loose. will look at adjusting the steering nut to get rid of play and hope

++Front headlights don't work-- haven't had a chance to look at any electrical

++Got a great deal on some 70's Datsun rims ( American racing? I think). the bolt pattern fits... will pick up lug nuts for fitting.

++ Q. Do I have to do anything to the back of them to make them "clear" the rivets on my drums. I read a post on here somewhere warning against straight bolt on.

Even replacing a fuel filter on a turbocharged Corvair can be an issue. There is a fuel return line from the special filter that can get blocked and cause problems, and you will need a special fuel filter that is largely unobtainable from local sources...

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=46



Part number C8: TURBO GAS FILTER WITH RETURN* WE SUGGEST NEW FITTINGS-BRASS=(1)C3227 & (1)C1052 FOR

Weight: 0 lbs 8 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 46(2)
Price: $ 34.05

The Carter YH carburetor can be temperamental and difficult to get "just right". They also appear to be sensitive to excessive fuel pressure, so testing your fuel pump pressure and possibly installing a fuel pressure regulator has been known to improve things.

http://stores.ebay.com/Wolf-Enterprises ... 7675.l2563

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Premium-Re ... 4acb683542

Corvair Parts and Repair - Wolf Enterprises
Grant G. Young
Street Address: 32605 Rhode Island Ave., San Antonio, FL 33576-7124
Phone: (352) 588-0645



The Carter YH carburetor does have a reputation for being finicky and sensitive to excessive fuel pressure. Clark's Corvair Parts recommends these pressure regulators be considered for use on Corvairs – especially on turbocharged Corvairs because of this sensitivity to excessive fuel pressure. The Corvair shop manual specifies 4-5 psi as the standard for fuel pressure (1965 Chassis Shop Manual, page 6M-27, 1961 Corvair Shop Manual, page 9-18). Although this is the specified standard, some fuel pumps exceed this specification. Since you have just installed a replacement mechanical fuel pump and the output pressure from that pump is currently unknown, I would recommend using a vacuum/pressure gauge and follow the procedures in the above shop manuals to test your pump. That way you will be making your choice based on tested values on your car, instead of just basing the decision on a theory and debate here on the Corvair Forum.

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=65


Part number C6517: TURBO FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR-WITH ALL PARTS FOR CORRECT INSTALLATION

Weight: 1 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 65
Price: $ 82.35

Put a pressure tester on the brand new fuel pump, read almost 8 lbs.! Shop manual says it should be between 4 and 5. Installed a $30 pressure regulator, running like a dream!

Here is a link to the book on Carter YH carburetors listed on Amazon.com. The three consumer reviews on Amazon.com all gave it 5 Star/Excellent ratings. $22.50
http://www.amazon.com/Identify-Rebuild- ... 1426928343
How to Identify and Rebuild Carter YH Carburetors Used on Corvair Turbocharged Engines
by Bob Helt (Author)


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Loose steering on a Corvair can be a steering box problem (or even loose or missing steering box mounting bolts), but another common cause is missing rubber in the Pitman Arm Bushing...











http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=156


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The headlights not working could be a faulty ground, a bad headlight switch or electrical connector, or a bad dimmer switch or connector (on the floor, to the left of the clutch pedal), or a wiring harness problem or loose/corroded multi-connector where the wiring enters the trunk from the car interior.

Note that the fuse block illustration indicates that there is a 15 Amp circuit breaker built into the light switch, in place of a fuse in that circuit. If that circuit breaker has tripped, it might be the cause of your headlight failure.

It is easiest to troubleshoot the headlight problem if you first study the schematic diagrams to learn how the circuit works. If you look at the first diagram you will see the dimmer switch in the lower-left portion of the diagram. The 16 Gauge Black with Light Green Stripe (16 B/LG) wire feeds both outboard headlights, which should be on at all times when the light switch is on. In the trunk, the wire travels from the multi-connector first to the left headlamp assembly, and then crosses over to the right assembly. Note that each headlamp assembly is grounded separately to the body (chassis ground). The 18 Gauge Tan (18 T) wire is routed in a similar fashion to the left, and then right headlamp assembly. The 18 T wire feeds only the two inboard high beam lamps. Note that all of the left side lights and the parking/turn signal assembly share the same ground wire, as do the light assemblies on the right side.

Questions: You said none of the headlights work.

1. Do the parking and turn signal lights work on the left and right sides? If they do, that would seem to indicate a good ground connection on both sides of the car. Since the two sides are grounded by separate wires, it would be unlikely that both ground wires were broken or disconnected.

2. Do the low beams work, but go out when the high beams are activated? Or do none of the lights work on high or low beam? Also, when you turn on the light switch and toggle the dimmer switch between low and high beam, does the red high beam light (on the instrument panel) turn on and off, or is it off all of the time too?

The 14 Gauge Black with Light Blue Stripe (14 B/LBL) wire at the dimmer switch provides power to all of the headlights on both sides. The dimmer switch directs power to the low beams only, or to all lights, including the high beam indicator light on the instrument panel. If nothing comes on at all, use a multimeter to check for 12V DC at the 14 B/LBL wire at the dimmer switch when the headlight switch is on. (Ground the black multimeter test lead, and touch the red test lead to the 14 B/LBL connector). If no voltage is present at that point, the problem would appear to be back toward the light switch. If voltage is present, but not getting past the dimmer switch, you may have a defective dimmer switch. (Be sure the dimmer switch connector is not damaged, loose or corroded when connecting it to the dimmer switch). If the voltage seems to be getting through the dimmer switch, but not to the headlamps, check for damage, a loose connection, or corrosion at the 7-pin multi-connector that leads to the trunk.

If no power seems to be coming to the dimmer switch from the light switch, the light switch itself, or the light switch multi connector comes into question. All power for the light switch comes from a 16 Gauge Red (16 R) wire that comes from the fuse block. This same wire also feeds many other circuits through a wiring junction point, including the cigarette lighter, the horn relay, etc. So if the horn, cigarette lighter, etc. functions, you know that 12V DC is present at the junction point that feeds the light switch. But if power is not coming from the light switch to the dimmer switch, a faulty light switch or loose light switch connector may be suspect.

I hope that these fault isolation and troubleshooting steps are helpful to you. Let me know if you have any questions, or what you find in your circuit troubleshooting. I have also attached the appropriate section of the Shop Manual supplement to help with your troubleshooting.

NOTE: Click on images with mouse to enlarge the image...

1964 Corvair Interior Wiring Diagram

1964 Corvair Trunk Wiring Diagram

1964 Fuse Block and Fuse List

Corvair Wiring Circuit Color Codes.jpg (38.59 KiB) Viewed 3234 times

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You mentioned a possible interference problem with rivets on the EM drums that could interfere with the fit of the Datsun wheels. If they do interfere, and if they are the rivets that attach the drums to the hubs, I believe they can be drilled out and removed. This question came up last April when a Corvair Forum member wanted to replace the old drums with new drums. The new drums did not come with hubs attached. He wanted to know how to deal with this, and sent a question to Clark's Corvair Parts...

comments: I ordered the turned brake rotor for my
64 coupe. It doesn't have the hub/lug nut insert
installed. What is the process of removing this
from the old and installing in the new. It seems
to be riveted into place, and appears to require
drilling out, but not sure how I would reattach to
the new rotor? Please advise.

Yes, just drill out or chisel out the old rivets, they do not need to be reinstalled, just put the drum on and your wheel and lug nuts will hold everything in place, there is no need to re-install the rivets.

Whew! This was a long one! Gotta go...

[gbarron]

That's totally possible, but as a fellow Canadian I'd hate to think that they would do such a hack job at the factory lol!
Check the distributor. If it is a proper pressure retard unit, the nipple when the vacuum hose attaches to should have a little bumped out ridge on it. A regular vacuum advance unit will just be smooth. Won't tell you much about the block but it is something else you can check before tearing into the engine.

I agree, but looking at the low numbers of Spyders built in Oshawa it might make sense. If the plant in Canada received bulk shipments of engines for install in Corvairs and modified accordingly as required for production, then I could see them updating the block with the scribed numbers. I would also think they would grind off or XXX out the old number to eliminate confusion, but hey, it was the 60's! The other clues (heads, distributor, etc) should help identify if this is accurate or not. Given the scribed date code (05) is earlier than the stamped one (08), it would mean the modifications took place the following year in May month vs. the production stamp of August month.

Alternatively...someone messed with the engine as you suggested and attempted to add their own codes with an electric pencil. If that's the case someone went out of their way to "fake" a 1964 Corvair Spyder engine. Possibly the original engine was replaced and they scribed the numbers off the old/failed engine onto the replacement block not really understanding what the codes meant. That would be messy! The truth lies in the other details!

[ironbruuu]

Wow I am overwhelmed you guys rock... I will be looking at the various details and updating as I find things out. Excited to see what I have and dont have, and to be honest its a cool car and project so let the games begin.
James