New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

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JRamon
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:45 pm

New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

Post by JRamon »

Hey Guys!
Got my first corvair about 2.5 months ago. 65 Monza 4 speed manual. Currently living in Danville, California.

My question is, have any of you ever installed a Hi Torque Starter.
The brand I have is IMI out of Whittier California.
Just wonder how you wired it up if you have installed one.
Pictures would be awesome as well.

Thanks
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bbodie52
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Re: New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

Post by bbodie52 »

:welcome2: :wave: :wave: :clap: Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

I have never personally purchased or installed one of these starters, but here is what I can find about it...

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I believe that the large terminal connects to the battery positive cable, and the other wire is the solenoid trigger wire from the ignition switch (purple wire). This wire applies 12 VDC to the solenoid when you turn the key to START.

This aftermarket starter has no provision for supporting the yellow, or yellow with black stripe wire that normally boosts the ignition coil voltage to a full 12VDC battery voltage (bypassing the ballast resistor wire) while the engine is being cranked. This boost temporarily increases the high voltage output of the coil to the spark plugs, to promote easier cold starting of the engine. The normal operation is to power the ignition coil with a reduced nominal voltage of approximately 7 VDC, which has ben deemed adequate to fire the spark plugs reliability during normal engine operation with the engine running at normal operating temperatures.

The reduced voltage from the resistor wire embedded in the wiring harness prolongs the life of the ignition points in the distributor by reducing arcing and burning of the ignition points switching contacts by reducing current flow as the coil is switched on and off. This lower voltage also helps the ignition coil to run cooler by reducing current flowing through the primary winding in the coil. This reduced voltage is produced continuously from the ignition switch when in the ON position, as current flows through the resistor wire that is a part of the factory wiring harness.

You may not notice any starting problems when starting a cold engine without the boost voltage for the col from the factory starter solenoid.

Some Corvair owners eliminate the stock Delco coil and ignition points, and install a system upgrade using a Pertronix or Crane Cams/FAST electronic ignition system, or a recently introduced Stinger electronic breakerless replacement distributor. The Pertronix Ignitor or Ignitor II breakerless system requires a full 12 VDC, and the installation instructions directs bypassing the resistor wire to accomplish this change. The uw of a 3.0 ohm ignition coil from Pertronix or Bosch is recommended to reduce current flow through the high performance coil, while permitting power for the Pertronix electronic points replacement module to be a full battery voltage to support the needs of the internal electronic circuits. The Stinger electronic distributor also require a full 12 VDC power source for its internal electronic circuits. However, the Crane Cams/FAST XR700 module is designed to operate with the reduced voltage provided by the ballast resistor wire circuit, so the installation instructins does not require bypassing the resistor wire.

Switching to a magnetic trigger or optical trigger ignition system is an option you may wish to consider in the future (unless your Corvair is already equipped with this type of system installed by a previous owner) It can reduce tune-up maintenance by eliminating the points, and provide more-reliable operation.

in any case, you can leave the yellow wire disconnected from the aftermarket starter, and you will normally not notice any problems with degraded low-output coil voltage to the spark plugs when starting a cold engine, i the rest of your system is properly tuned.

MAKE SURE THAT THE UNUSED YELLOW AND BLACK WIRE IS TAPED OR OTHERSWISE PREVENTED FROM SHORTING TO GROUND, SINCE IT WOULD NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE STARTER. IF THE WIRE SHORTS TO GROUND IT WOULD INTERRUPT THE VOLTAGE TO THE IGNITON COIL, AND LIKELY SHUT DOWN YOUR ENGINE. THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE AFTERMARKET STARTER APPARENTLY DISCUSSES A "DIODE KIT" TO DEAL WITH THIS OMISSION IN THE REPLACEMENT STARTER DESIGN. YOU CAN READ ABOUT THIS STARTER AND THE DIODE KIT BY CLICKING ON THE FOLLOWING LINK...
Corvair Center Title Bar.jpg
:link: http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,725915

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You may want to contact Clark's Corvair Parts Customer Service to further discuss your options with the different wiring of this aftermarket starter...
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:link: https://ssl.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalo ... ow_page=86

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This supplier also markets this starter...
:link: https://www.corvair1.com/1960-69-starter-motor-hp-ras25
1960-69 mimi starter motor, high performance, heavy duty. with high torque, 1.4 KW Nippon Denso motor, this unit delivers a high 500 ft/lbs of torque, with 5 roller bearings and a 4.44/1 reduction. This starter unit is brand new, not rebuilt; easy to install, it will fit just like the stock one, bolt it in; is about 10 lbs lighter; comes with a single wire plug; we also carry a separate 2 in 1 plug for this unit that includes a built-in diode, runs 12 volts to the coil and insures that the current flows one way, and not back to the starter, protecting the life of the unit, see part # RAS200, I highly recommend to use that with the starter, I do; for those who demand high performance, for race car, or for your street ride, daily driver, this unit is reliable, light, heat and water-resistant, compact and will start your engine every time! a great investment! I run a similar unit in 2 of my rides, dang! what a difference in performance,very satisfied! Don't hesitate to call Rafee at 918-413-1548 with any questions you might have about this item. Note: no core needed!
1960-69 plug with diode for HP starter, #RAS200
:link: https://www.corvair1.com/index.php?main ... ts_id=1635
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Model: RAS200
Shipping Weight: 0.4lbs
1 Units in Stock
$17.25
1960-69 2-in-1 special plug with built-in diode for high torque starter, 12 volts: this diode plug will run 12 volts to the coil, allowing the current to flow only one way; this will protect the starter from overheating or burning the unit, and will increase the lifespan of the starter; this plug will allow you to keep your original starter plug, all you need to do is splice it in to the new plug, see photo; don't hesitate to contact Rafman at 918-413-1548 with any questions you might have about this item.

The link below will provide you with a list of useful websites that are Corvair-related. Some of the links will lead you to an extensive technical library that will allow you to download shop manuals and other technical references in Adobe Reader format at no cost. There is also a link that will help you to locate nearby CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters. You will also find a list of essential Corvair parts suppliers. Clark's Corvair Parts in Shelburne Falls, MA is the biggest and oldest Corvair supplier in the world. You will find a link that can provide you with a series of videos that amount to a tour of the Clark's Corvair Parts facilities. Parts suppliers such as this truly make our Corvair hobby possible.

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

Corvair Forum :link: http://www.corvairforum.com/forum/viewt ... 225&t=6007

:dontknow: I would like to encourage you to expand on your initial post and tell us more about yourself, your Corvair interests, and your goals for your Corvair. Helping us to know more about you will help us to write comments to you that are tailored to your needs and experience. Detailed pictures of your Corvair — including the engine compartment — would possibly be useful. Knowing your location may also suggest possibilities in supporting your Corvair interests.

:welcome: :welcome2:
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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

66vairguy
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

Post by 66vairguy »

The only advantage of the Hi-Torque starter is it's lighter. That's it. The stock Corvair starter has more than enough power to turn over the engine.

Also you loose the higher voltage path to the ignition coil during starting unless you install a big diode in the harness (one more thing to fail).

Finally the only unit that seems to have stood up well is the one from Clark's Corvair. For decades there have been a number of cheap Hi-Torque (geared down) starters on the market for old cars and most are cheap junk that don't last as reported by others.

I like the idea of less weight in the back, but saving a few pounds isn't worth the issues of using a Hi-Torque starter. Just me.

joelsplace
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

Post by joelsplace »

They are also supposed to pull a lot less current. I think that is why they didn't feel the wire for full power to the coil was needed.
113 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX

66vairguy
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

Post by 66vairguy »

joelsplace wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:52 am
They are also supposed to pull a lot less current. I think that is why they didn't feel the wire for full power to the coil was needed.
True unless you are in Minnesota at night in February trying to start the car when battery voltage is low and the engine is cold. Yes few will do that in a "hobby" Corvair.

Reminds of a buddy who could not get his relatively new VW bug started in 10F Midwest weather. I had him pull the battery out and put it in a warmed up (not hot) oven to sit for 15minutes. He put the battery back in the VW and it fired right up!

joelsplace
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New here and questions on Hi Torque Starter

Post by joelsplace »

I wasn't agreeing with them. I think it is needed. It was just a speculation on why they think it is ok not to have one.
The real reason is probably that it is cheaper and most vehicles use electronic ignitions that don't use that circuit.
113 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX

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