New member from Lansing, MI

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Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

Hello to everyone on the forum! Just signed up today and I'm in the Lansing, MI area.

I finally acquired my 1st project car, a 1965 Monza Convertible 4-speed. Not a show car but runs and drives. Been looking for 15 years for this configuration at a non-show car price but which also runs and drives. First thing I'll be doing is a complete front suspension recondition/overhaul (parts ordered already) and chasing down a battery drain gremlin. After it's a little more roadworthy, I plan to address other issues here and there. Maybe a repaint in the future back the original Danube Blue color after fixing some body issues. My previous experience with Corvairs deals in converting a 110 engine for an airplane engine in my Zenith STOL CH750 airplane project.

Anyway, looking forward to the technical advice and networking here.
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Last edited by Greg Harris on Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by joelsplace »

If you aren't familiar with Corvairs one battery drain problem that is common on them but not on any other cars is the heater hose laying on the starter solenoid. The wire in the hose can short to the positive battery cable on the solenoid.
Last drain problem I had was a bad aftermarket radio. Glove box light not turning off is also not uncommon.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

joelsplace wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:23 pm If you aren't familiar with Corvairs one battery drain problem that is common on them but not on any other cars is the heater hose laying on the starter solenoid. The wire in the hose can short to the positive battery cable on the solenoid.
Last drain problem I had was a bad aftermarket radio. Glove box light not turning off is also not uncommon.
Thank you for that tip! I'll have to get it up on ramps and take a look. I have 3/4-amp total draw with all the fuses out. When I unplug the alternator excite/diode wire, the amp draw drops to about 1/2-amp, with no change with the charging wire pulled. There's no glove box light bulb installed and there are a bunch of splices in behind the dash. I've also found some wires twisted together with no wire nut or crimp terminal or tape...just bare (but not grounded out). The modern aftermarket stereo is wired right to the unfused battery terminal on the fuse block but I already checked that. I was going take a look at the starter and ignition switch next, but that heater hose issue may be the culprit!

There are a couple weak connections someplace, though, because when I was messing around checking wires all over the place, the vent fan started working again after I reconnected the battery. Lots to troubleshoot, methinks.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
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bbodie52
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Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by bbodie52 »

:welcome2: :wave: :wave: Welcome, Greg, to the Corvair Forum!

There are a number of unfused circuits in a Corvair, and from your description the previous owner(s) may have created more! :doh: The wiring schematics at this link may prove helpful...

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

The link below will provide you with a list of useful websites that are Corvair-related. Some of the links will lead you to an extensive technical library that will allow you to download shop manuals and other technical references in Adobe Reader format at no cost. There is also a link that will help you to locate nearby CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters. You will also find a list of essential Corvair parts suppliers. Clark's Corvair Parts in Shelburne Falls, MA is the biggest and oldest Corvair supplier in the world. You will find a link that can provide you with a series of videos that amount to a tour of the Clark's Corvair Parts facilities. Parts suppliers such as this truly make our Corvair hobby possible.

Common and Useful Corvair Websites
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007

Contacting and perhaps joining the local Corvair Society of America (CORSA) club chapter may be helpful and may increase your enjoyment of your new Corvair.
ImageImage
Detroit Area Corvair Club Swartz Creek MI (Detroit Area) :link: http://detroitcorvairs.com/
Facebook: :link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1754042794919876


:dontknow: I would like to encourage you to expand on your first post and tell us more about yourself, as well as about your 1965 Monza Convertible. Some detailed photographs of the car — including the VIN tag (driver's side door jamb) and Body Tag in the engine compartment — can be very helpful. If you can provide your personal assessment of your mechanical skills and abilities, that would help a lot. Members of the Corvair Forum love to be helpful in assisting other Corvair owners with technical support and advice, but it helps a lot if we have some understanding of your technical background and mechanical abilities, your Corvair-related knowledge, etc. Helping us to know more about you will help us to write comments to you that are tailored to your needs and experience.

:welcome:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by joelsplace »

I'm guessing you have 2 problems. The drain shouldn't change when you unplug the alternator so that is a problem but it sounds like it is only half the problem. Is that an internally regulated alternator you are talking about or an original Corvair alternator?
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

bbodie52 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pmI would like to encourage you to expand on your first post and tell us more about yourself, as well as about your 1965 Monza Convertible. Some detailed photographs of the car — including the VIN tag (driver's side door jamb) and Body Tag in the engine compartment — can be very helpful. If you can provide your personal assessment of your mechanical skills and abilities, that would help a lot. Members of the Corvair Forum love to be helpful in assisting other Corvair owners with technical support and advice, but it helps a lot if we have some understanding of your technical background and mechanical abilities, your Corvair-related knowledge, etc. Helping us to know more about you will help us to write comments to you that are tailored to your needs and experience...
Thank you for the links in your original response. I was considering joining the West Michigan CORSA club in Grand Rapids. I'm basically half way between Grand Rapids and Detroit, but spend more time in the GR area than Detroit (except for work).

More about me: I'm a government stooge. I work for the State of Michigan as regulations agent in animal industry. Prior to that I was a police officer/detective for 15 years. In college, I took 2 years of mechanical engineering but decided I wanted something more "exciting" and went into law enforcement (kick myself every day for that choice). I'm an aviation nut and licensed pilot, and I'm building a 2-seat all-metal aircraft from scratch. I currently own and fly a 1962 Cessna 172 but I'm putting that up for sale soon.

While I've always been a gear head and classic car enthusiast, my interest in Corvairs was first ignited when I decided I wanted to assemble and convert an automotive engine to power my future homebuilt airplane and I started on the engine first. I decided on a Corvair conversion because it's popular, plentiful and has good support in the aviation community. I bought a '66 convertible Monza in 2004 that wasn't sound enough to be restored. I took the engine out and completely disassembled it for the flight motor conversion. I sold the chassis to another Corvair enthusiast in Ohio to be used as a parts car for another restoration. Until now, that's been the limit of my hands-on experience with Corvairs. However, I own copies of the 1965 GM Corvair Chassis Service Manual, the Chassis Manual supplement, Body Service Manual, How To Keep Your Corvair Alive, Stop Corvair Lubricant Leaks, Corvair Junkyard Primer and my Google-Fu is pretty good. I read forums and websites and anything else I can find that has to do with Corvairs, though, because I've wanted one ever since I got that parts car years ago.

As far as my mechanical background and knowledge, I've turned wrenches on all my own vehicles for things like brakes (I've only done disk, though), suspension bits, fluid changes, most minor engine/electrical things, some deep engine work (doing a timing belt on my old Audi A6 Twin Turbo was a huge job, complete with removing camshafts and such). Lots of bolt-on parts swaps, etc.

My shop is equipped with a TIG/Stick AC/DC welder, benchtop metal lathe (still lots to learn there), two drill presses, a 20-ton shop press with press brake kit & finger dies from Swag Off Rad, thread-cutting equipment, a DIY bending brake, 30-gallon compressor, engine hoist, bench grinders/polishes, all sorts of riveting and metal fabrication equipment, etc. It's mainly set up as an airplane fabrication shop but I have lots of automotive tools, too. I can read the basics of a wiring diagram. My sandblasting stuff will be here in a week or so. I also do most of my own home improvement/remodeling, including electrical work. I installed a forced air furnace in my insulated garage/shop last fall so I can work out there year round now (I keep it at 55 degrees F in the winter) and it keeps my tools/projects from getting condensation and rusting. I still need to wire my 220 circuit so I can weld at higher amps and convert my compressor to run on 220.

Whether I'm skilled at any of it remains to be seen. :tongue: I make no bones about the fact that I'm a shade tree, mostly self-taught, gear head. My YouTube channel about building an airplane showcases me making lots of mistakes and figuring out how to solve metal fabrication needs without having a million dollar shop. I make do with a lot of Harbor Freight tools but will spend more money on higher quality stuff when it needs to be more precise or will get some hard use.

More about the car:

VIN tag on the driver's door post is missing, I suspect because the car's been repainted at least once. I can't even see the outline of where it should be. Previous owner bought it from Shade's Classic Cars in Hastings, NE about a year ago. He did some freshening up that I wished he hadn't. Resprayed over some rust in the engine compartment. Resprayed the entire trunk without removing thing so the wiring harnesses are painted into the surface now. Overspray everywhere. There was no documentation that came with the car when he bought it. I've thought about contacting Shade's to see if there's any more info on it. Odometer read 70,552 when I bought it...no idea if that's accurate (I suspect not). It looks like the engine has been rebuilt and it runs VERY good, electrical issues aside. I believe the alternator has an internal regulator but it looks like it's plugged directly into a factory wiring harness.

The front suspension is a train wreck. None of the greased joints hold grease. All the bushings are rotted/cracked/missing. The metal looks solid but is coated in surface rust, including the crossmember (though it appears solid).

More pics:
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Last edited by Greg Harris on Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

joelsplace wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:55 pm I'm guessing you have 2 problems. The drain shouldn't change when you unplug the alternator so that is a problem but it sounds like it is only half the problem. Is that an internally regulated alternator you are talking about or an original Corvair alternator?
I believe it's internally regulated and not original but not certain. I've included a picture of it in my post above.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by joelsplace »

That is a factory style externally regulated alternator.
VIN by the door striker was only through '64. The stainless tag you show above is the VIN tag and appears original. There is a hidden VIN on the right side front wheel well behind the front suspension cross member. It is difficult or impossible to read without removing the front suspension.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

joelsplace wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:54 am That is a factory style externally regulated alternator.
VIN by the door striker was only through '64. The stainless tag you show above is the VIN tag and appears original. There is a hidden VIN on the right side front wheel well behind the front suspension cross member. It is difficult or impossible to read without removing the front suspension.
I'll definitely be looking for that VIN when I pull the front suspension in the next couple weeks.

Thank you for confirming the type of alternator. Now I have to figure out what to do about the 1/4-amp draw with it plugged in.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by joelsplace »

If you unplug the 2 wire connector and the draw goes away that should be a regulator problem. Thise 2 wires power the armature and shouldn't have any power going through them with the key off.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

joelsplace wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:58 am If you unplug the 2 wire connector and the draw goes away that should be a regulator problem. Those 2 wires power the armature and shouldn't have any power going through them with the key off.
I found the problem. Drain goes entirely away when I pull the wiring harness off the ignition switch. With the harness off, the alternator wires have zero effect on drain. Once you plug the ignition switch harness back in, then the alternator's 2-wire connector affects the drain by 1/4-am. I'll have to re-check the draw with a new ignition switch installed.

Got both ends of the car on ramps and did a more thorough inspection. The passenger side rear seat pan seam is open, and you can see carpet. There's a missing cover at the rear of the service tunnel where the accelerator pedal linkage is. It looks like it was bottomed out and ripped away. Lost of bent rusty metal where the cover is supposed to be. The air duct is too low in the back and the parking brake cable was actually slipped up over top of it. Someone installed 4" aluminum flex clothes dryer vent hose for the 2 heater hoses in the back of the car. I was getting arcing on one of them when it touched the contactors for the starter because the ignition switch was pulling current. I removed the one over the starter. Both the thermostat air doors are missing. Lots more weird stuff going on underneath but that's why it's a project car. Still has solid bones, though.

I have access to 2 parts cars, so I may be able to do some reconditioning. I don't have the space to buy and store both those cars, however, and I don't know long I'll have access to them. I plan to buy at least one spare 110 engine from one of the cars. We'll see.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by joelsplace »

The heater duct should have a loop that holds it up. It is often missing. The one on the other side can cause problems if it drags on the axle. It will wear a hole in the duct quickly and the wire will eventually cut the half shaft in two if it is left rubbing long enough.
You might be able to take the ignition switch apart and repair it or at least see why it wasn't disconnecting properly.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
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bbodie52
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Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by bbodie52 »

Can anyone see the images posted? This is what I see...
No Display Images.jpg
About a dozen non-photo images are shown, all like those I captured above.
Greg Harris wrote:» Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:42 pm

Hello to everyone on the forum! Just signed up today and I'm in the Lansing, MI area.

I finally acquired my 1st project car, a 1965 Monza Convertible 4-speed...
Image

Image

The VIN Tag and the larger Body Tag can both be found in the engine compartment...

Image

Image

Image


Your VIN should be something like: 105675Wnnnnnn

Your car is a 1965. The VIN tag on 1965 and later Corvairs was in the engine compartment, on the frame rail next to the battery.
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

bbodie52 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:36 pm Can anyone see the images posted? This is what I see...
I can see all the images I posted within the thread.
bbodie52 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:36 pm Your VIN should be something like: 105675Wnnnnnn

Your car is a 1965. The VIN tag on 1965 and later Corvairs was in the engine compartment, on the frame rail next to the battery.
Yes, I posted pics of all that, but apparently they aren't visible to everyone?

My VIN is exactly that format and the tag is in the engine bay and looks original. I'll see about uploading all my pics to a blog and linking it here in case this problem continues, but the pics are linked properly and should be visible.

Here is a direct link to my photo album for the car (so far):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PsY4hMEY9guniw478
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
Greg Harris
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Mason, MI

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by Greg Harris »

joelsplace wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:29 pm The heater duct should have a loop that holds it up. It is often missing.
It's missing entirely on the starter side of the engine, I've already added a replacement to my pending Clark's order, along with a new ignition switch.
Cheers,

Greg

1965 Monza Convertible 4-spd
Zenith STOL CH750 Airplane w/Corvair 110 flight conversion
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsZenithSTOLCH750
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: New member from Lansing, MI

Post by joelsplace »

I could see them earlier but can't see them now.
Did you use Insert image or attach file? Here is an attachment test:
Now that I did an attachment I can see you must have used insert image. I've never tried that but I would guess the image url is no longer good.
Attachments
2Turbo_1.jpg
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
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