First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

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bmuno
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:24 pm
Location: Fallbrook, CA (San Diego)

First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

Unread post by bmuno » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:24 am

My name is Bill and I live in Fallbrook, CA (San Diego). I sold my MG Midget in May because it was too hard to get in and out of. Just bought a 1965 Corvair convertible, 4 speed Turbo. I have done Porsche. MBZ, MGs, and VWs. I am not afraid of mechanical or electrical issues, but rust and body work scare me. I joined this forum in June to help me shop for a convertible. I found what I think is a great one, but since i am a novice i don't know what I have.

I bought a 1965 convertible that according to the VIN is a Monza. It has a Turbo 4 speed with a single exhaust. The trim and dash has been upgraded to Corsa but not all the gauges are working. I know that I will be able to figure that out with help from this forum. My major concerns now are the steering play and the lack of any freeplay in the clutch pedal. I have ordered the 1965 Chassis Manuals and I am in no hurry. The car has not been registered since 1995 but the seller did have it running. I drove it 75 miles home after purchasing it. I have very little history on the car and am very curious about what I really have. I have included images of the Vin, the Body Tag, and Engine number. Any Information I can get on what I have would be greatly appreciated. Is a Turbo with a single exhaust a 180HP motor? What motor was my car born with?

Thanks in advance. I know I will be frequenting and hopefully contributing to this form.

Bill

Engine Number is : T0223RG
Attachments
muno eng tag.jpg
95 body tag.jpg
95 vin number.jpg
muno turbo.jpg
Sold my MG Midget in May 2017.
Joined the Corvair Forum in June 2017.
Bought my first Corvair November 2017.
1965 Corvair Monza?/Corsa? Convertible.
Bill

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bbodie52
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Re: First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

Unread post by bbodie52 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:31 am

Body  & VIN Tags.jpg
Here is a breakdown of the information on the body tag you provided...
BODY TAG INFO:

12C
Body Build Date: 12 = December C = Third Week
The first two digits are numbers 01 through 12, indicating the month of manufacture. The letter is A-E, indicating the week of the month. If the letter is an "C" it indicates the third week of the month.

Interior paint code: B = Blue

65-10567 WRN 7807 BODY
Style: 65 = 1965 10567: 1 = Chevrolet, 05 = Monza, 67 = 2-Door Convertible 4-Passenger,
WRN = Willow Run, Michigan, Production Sequence No: 7807

1965 Chevrolet Corvair Monza 2-Door Convertible - 4 Passenger, Total Production: 26,466


Image

TRim: 733- = BLUE (MONZA 10500 and CORSA 10700 SERIES — Bucket Front Seats)
This 3 digit codes represents the interior color and seat type.

Paint: E-2 = DARK BLUE "Danube Blue Poly.", Top Color Code: 2 = BLACK
Lucite No. 4631L, Rinshed-Mason No. A1721, Ditzler No. DDL 13002

Image

Example — 1965 Corvair in Danube Blue
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ACC = Accessory line
When decoding ACC line on the Fisher body tags, be aware that body tags do not include any options that did not require any body modification be done by Fisher. Fisher was only concerned with items that required modifications during the assembly of the body. A good example is that you won’t find Telescopic column listed on the body tag. Although this is a major option, it did not require any special consideration during body assembly.

WD 2M 3C 4PU 5W

GROUP 1
W = RPO A02 — Glass, Tinted Windshield Only
D = RPO C06 — Top, Convertible Electric Folding

GROUP 2
M = RPO M35 — Powerglide Automatic Transmission

GROUP 3
C = RPO B70 — Padded Dash

GROUP 4
P = RPO Z01 — Comfort and Convenience Group (2 speed Wipers, Washers, Mirror, Inside & Outside Rear View, Lamp, Back-Up, Lamp, Glove Box)
U = RPO P19 — Spare tire lock

GROUP 5
W = RPO A49 — Deluxe Front Seatbelts (Chrome Buckles) with Retractors

This guide will show you how to decode the VIN tag...

105675W164108

1965 Chevrolet Corvair Monza Convertible produced at the Willow Run, Michigan Plant, S/N: 164108
VIN - LM Corvair Passenger Car VIN Tag Decoding.jpg
Engine.jpg
Below is your engine serial number…-

T0223RG
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T = Tonawanda, New York (GM Tonawanda Engine Plant)
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/comp ... wanda.html
0223 = Engine manufacturing date (month and date). February 23rd.
RG = 1965-1967 95 hp 164 CID with Powerglide Automatic Transmission (Corvair 500 and Monza)

Your engine cases were originally fitted to a low horsepower (95 hp) engine. The differences between that engine and the 180 hp turbocharged engine were significant. The turbocharged engines were offered as an option only on the 1965 – 1966 Corsa. It was not offered on the Monza and was never offered coupled to an automatic transmission. (The GM design engineers did not feel that the two speed Powerglide automatic transmission was a suitable match to the power curve and performance characteristics of the turbocharged Corvair engine). The cylinder heads were specially designed to match the turbocharged engine and determined the compression ratio of 8.25:1. The right head had a special oil return port to connect the oil return line from the turbocharger. From what I can tell from the single picture of your engine it is likely that the turbocharger cylinder heads were purchased and installed on this engine. The correct cylinder head casting numbers (cast on the end of each head, near the valve cover) include the following numbers:

Image

3856756 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged
3856762 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged
3878564 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged
3878568 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged
3883860 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged
3883865 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged
3883866 1965-66 180 hp turbocharged

The original fuel line to the carburetor was steel tubing. It appears that some type of rubber hose has been substituted on your engine. This may not be a safe configuration. I would recommend obtaining steel tubing fuel line to match the original factory design.

High-octane Premium gasoline should be used exclusively with the turbocharged engine to prevent the possibility of detonation and potential damage to the pistons.

The original crankshaft that was fitted to the 140 hp and 180 hp engines was nitrided (a special heat treatment to increase the strength of the crankshaft journals and reduce the possibility of crankshaft failure). There is no easy way to determine which crankshaft is installed on your engine. (The nitrided crankshafts included an ampersand (&) stamp at the end of the crankshaft, next to the pilot bushing. There is no way to view this without removing the engine to examine the end of the crankshaft). In addition, all Corvair engines that were rated at 110 hp and above (1964-1969) were fitted with a harmonic balancer in place of a standard cast solid crankshaft pulley. This was considered essential by GM engineers to prolong the life of the crankshaft and to help prevent damage from engine harmonics. If your engine is fitted with a standard solid cast crankshaft pulley (found only on the 95 hp engines) I would recommend purchasing a new harmonic balancer from a source like Clark's Corvair Parts and installing it in place of the incorrect crankshaft pulley.

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The turbocharged engine was fitted with a special camshaft that was ground specifically to support the turbocharged engine design. There is no easy way to determine if this camshaft was used in your engine without dismantling the engine. In any case the camshaft cannot be exchanged without completely dismantling the engine to separate the two halves of the engine cases to allow removal of the camshaft.

The engine should be fitted with a special distributor that utilized an advance curve that was unique to the turbocharged engine. This distributor also had a special pressure retard device that looked like a vacuum advance on a normal distributor. However, the pressure retard device was specifically designed to retard ignition timing under turbocharged boost to prevent detonation. The correct distributor part number is shown in the table below. The number is difficult to see on the distributor housing because it is stamped on the side of the housing that normally faces the engine.

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Is your car still fitted with a Powerglide automatic transmission? If it is, I'm not sure how it will perform in conjunction with the turbocharged engine. In addition the Powerglide transmission utilizes a vacuum modulator to control the transmission. The vacuum hose from the vacuum modulator (on the right side of the transmission) is supposed to connect to the vacuum balance tube on the engine. However, there is no vacuum balance tube installed on the turbocharged engine, so I'm not sure how this was resolved if a Powerglide transmission is in use with your turbocharged engine. :dontknow:

I have attached a copy of the 1965 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs for your model year Corvair.
1965 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs.pdf
1965 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs
(2.01 MiB) Downloaded 1 time
:chevy: :welcome:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

bmuno
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:24 pm
Location: Fallbrook, CA (San Diego)

Re: First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

Unread post by bmuno » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:58 pm

Brad, Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive response. It will take me a while to absorb all of it. I was able to determine that at least the right head is the Turbo head. The left head had only the number 11B on the rear end. I suspect that the part number is on the front of the head. The engine is running strong and I have no plans of tearing it down unless I have to. I will take your advice on the fuel line and damper before I put it on the road. Right now I have clutch and steering issue to deal with. I will post further questions on the mechanical forum.

Thanks again for your wealth of knowledge. I look forward to working with the Corvair community.

Bill
Sold my MG Midget in May 2017.
Joined the Corvair Forum in June 2017.
Bought my first Corvair November 2017.
1965 Corvair Monza?/Corsa? Convertible.
Bill

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bbodie52
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Re: First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

Unread post by bbodie52 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:03 am

bmuno wrote:...Right now I have clutch and steering issue to deal with...
Clutch? I guess that means when your Monza was converted to a Corsa clone, it was fitted with a manual transmission transaxle in addition to the Corsa instrument panel and turbocharged engine.

Incidentally, there is no reason that a different set of engine cases from another 164 CID engine could not be substituted for the original turbocharged engine cases. The 164 CID engine cases were all the same, and all had the needed clearances for the increased engine displacement (164 CID) that started in 1964 with the new long-stroke crankshaft. The heavy duty nitrided crankshaft, the turbo camshaft, special cylinder heads, and turbocharger-based intake and exhaust system, and the unique distributor comprised the bulk of the unique parts for the turbocharged 180 hp Corsa. The engine sheet metal was also modified to accommodate the turbo exhaust pipes, and the body on the right side was changed to add a cutout for the turbo muffler.
Late Model (1965) Turbo Exhaust Body Cutout.jpg
Late Model (1965-66) Turbo Corsa Exhaust Body Cutout
bmuno wrote:...It has a Turbo 4 speed with a single exhaust. The trim and dash has been upgraded to Corsa but not all the gauges are working. I know that I will be able to figure that out with help from this forum. My major concerns now are the steering play and the lack of any freeplay in the clutch pedal...
I must have been tired. I failed to notice your description that included the words "4 speed".

If your clutch mechanism lacks free play, the cable and pulleys may be binding, or the clutch linkage at the transaxle may not be adjusted properly. I have attached manual sections that illustrate the clutch mechanism and the adjustment procedures.
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 7 - CLUTCH AND CONTROLS.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 7 - CLUTCH AND CONTROLS
(4.83 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - CLUTCH CABLE AND LINKAGE.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - CLUTCH CABLE AND LINKAGE
(1.46 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
Front-end loose steering could be a steering box issue, but a worn-out pitman arm bushing is more-common. The pitman arm bushing can rot and leave a lot of slop in the steering connection between the steering box pitman arm and the steering linkage.

Image

I've seen them so bad that the rubber part is completely missing, leaving only the bolt floating within the steering link.
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Image
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 9 - STEERING.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 9 - STEERING
(4.31 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - STEERING.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - STEERING
(1.92 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=156
Image
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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bbodie52
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Re: First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

Unread post by bbodie52 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:22 am

Some of these newly available parts may be useful. If your Corsa instrument panel cylinder head temperature gauge is not working, it may be missing the wiring to connect the gauge to the thermistor temperature sensor on the underside of the left cylinder head. Or possibly the thermistor itself (looks like a small spark plug) might be missing. For the Corsa tachometer, a sensor wire is needed to connect between the gauge and the negative ignition coil terminal to sense ignition pulses. The clock almost never works (poor design), but there are electronic replacements that can put it back in business if you are interested. The manifold pressure/vacuum gauge is not electrical, it is mechanical, and requires a special plastic nylon tubing to connect the gauge to the intake manifold. all of the above were unique to the Corsa, and would not have been present in the Monza or 500 Corvairs.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=51
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Complete Corsa and Monza wiring schematic diagrams is available using this link...

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

If you have a poor ground in the instrument panel, it would generally impact everything except the speedometer and vacuum gauge, which are both mechanical and not electric. The illustration showing the late model Corsa instrument panel grounding system are shown below...

Image

The clocks were never reliable and I sometimes believe they failed before the car left the dealership parking lot for the first time. There are quartz electronic replacements available that retain the original look while replacing the mechanism behind the instrument panel.

:link: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cor ... &_from=R40


Some interesting new parts from Clark's Corvair Parts...
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.c ... y=whatsnew

ImageImage
Thermistor replacement head temp sensors now in stock
Image

We are now stocking the Vairtrix cylinder head temperature sensors. The 62-64 Spyder uses C1717 and the 65-66 Corsa uses C1718. These replace your thermistor at a lower cost and get your temperature gauge working again. Order here
62-64 Spyder C1717
Part number C1717: 62-64 TURBO CYL HEAD TEMP SENSOR *THERMO COUPLER - REPLACEMENT FOR THERMISTER

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Pages(s):
Price: $ 149.95


65-66 Corsa C1718

Part number C1718: 65-66 TURBO & 140 CYL HEAD TEMP SENSOR *THERMO COUPLER - REPLACEMENT FOR THERMISTER

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Pages(s):
Price: $ 149.95


Part number C10888: THERMISTER ADAPTOR-THERMISTER INTO 80-110 HP HEADS -- DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN

Weight: 0 lbs 2 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 51
Price: $ 13.85


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:link: http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,917867
Vairtrix wrote:Advanced Corvair Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor by Vairtrix
Posted by: Vairtrix
Date: April 06, 2017 08:25AM

Advanced Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor by Vairtrix

The CHT-100 is an advanced Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor for the Corvair Spyder and Corsa models. Designed as a direct replacement for the obsolete AC Delco Thermistor, the CHT-100 uses thermocouple technology for reliable and accurate temperature measurement over the wide range of temperatures experienced in the Corvair air cooled engine. It uses your existing Spyder or Corsa dash gauge for a stock look with upgraded performance.

The CHT-100 uses advanced digital technology to convert the thermocouple measurement to a constant resistance source, matched specifically to the Corvair dash mounted cylinder head temperature gauge. It performs sensor linearization using tables published by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The CHT-100 includes Cold Junction compensation to maintain accuracy over a wide range of ambient temperatures. Finally, the output of the CHT-100 is matched to the unique non-linear response curve of the Spyder and Corsa dash gauges. The result is a sensor that outperforms the original AC Delco design and provides an accurate temperature report from 200 to 600 degrees Fahrenheit.

For more information on this product, visit http://www.vairtrix.com/#!/HOME

My name is Pete Faulkner and I live in the DC area. I bought my first Corvair, a ‘68 500 in 1973 and have had several since. I currently own a ’63 Spyder, purchased in ’88 and restored in ’94. I have been a member of the San Diego and Northern Virginia Corvair Clubs.

Frustrated with the supplier community’s lack of progress in coming up with a suitable replacement for the Corvair Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor, I developed the Vairtrix CHT-100 with the goal of accuracy over the entire expected temperature range. I didn’t feel it was necessary to examine or reproduce the GM sensor as its accuracy is rather poor. It would have been akin to reproducing leaky push rod tube seals by seeking the original formula for neoprene. Instead, I focused on the gauge and set out to design a sensor that would line up with the unique characteristics of the Corvair Spyder and Corsa gauges.

I believe I have hit all of my design objectives in this first version. My only concern is long term reliability and time will tell if I have achieved this goal. In my past life, we did reliability predictions using software modeling and accelerated life testing in the chamber. Instead, I’m relying on a small loyal group of folks within the community who actually drive their Corvairs to serve that purpose.

Jim Simpson was gracious enough to send me his gauge curves and I referenced them for the firmware lookup tables. The fantastic people at the Corvair Ranch have provided support and together, we are conducting field trials.

My fiancé’ Misti owns a Graphics Design and Marketing firm and she put together a Corporate Identity, Logo and a web presence. She does this stuff in her sleep.

For those of you that may question my street cred, I have been a Corvair owner since 1973 and possess over 35 years of experience in developing sophisticated military and automotive electronic systems with high survivability that are used in the harshest of environments. Formerly, I was a member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the National Defense Industrial Association (NDIA). I am now retired and doing this for the Corvair Community as a hobby
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Turbo pressure retard units now in stock

We have recently reproduced the turbo pressure retard units as well as the combination advance/retard unit that many people like to use.

62-64 turbo retard #224 = C13269

65-66 turbo retard #250 = C13270

62-66 turbo advance/retard unit #2500 = C7877

Plus we reproduced a couple of the vacuum advances.

62-69 advance unit for 2 carb motors #217= C5624A

65-69 advance unit for 140 hp #248 = C6524E

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New 66-69 repro motor mount now in stock-NO Core

New 66-69 motor mounts are in stock, no longer any core charge on these. Can also be used on a 65. order c8059R

Part number C8059R: NEW MOTOR MOUNT 66-69 *ARE OK FOR 65

Weight: 8 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160,SUP,38
Price: $ 110.85


Image
NEW MOTOR MOUNTS ARE IN STOCK

We have just received the new motor mounts for the early model cars, no need to send cores any more with these new mounts, these are not rebuilds, these are entirely new mounts.

61-63 mount C8056R

Part number C8056R: NEW MOTOR MOUNT 61-63 CAR (EXC A/C)

Weight: 4 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160,SUP,38
Price: $ 70.65


61-63 with A/C C8056AR

Part number C8056AR: NEW MOTOR MOUNT 61-63 CAR WITH AIR COND

Weight: 4 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160,SUP,38
Price: $ 76.95


64 mount C8057R
Part number C8057R: NEW MOTOR MOUNT 64 CAR

Weight: 4 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160,SUP,38
Price: $ 74.85


These are only some of the new items listed. Click on the link at the top to see more.
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

bmuno
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:24 pm
Location: Fallbrook, CA (San Diego)

Re: First Corvair 1965 Monza?/Corsa? Turbo Convertible

Unread post by bmuno » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:49 pm

Brad, Thanks again for all the info. So far my Corsa upgrade has checked out. I have the proper heads, distributor, and turbo oil line. I also found out I have OTTO aluminum vale cover and oil pan. I feel that the crank and cam will check. I have not had time to put the car on axle stands yet. I will be traveling with our RV group for about a week but I will be posting questions again soon after I return.

Bill
Sold my MG Midget in May 2017.
Joined the Corvair Forum in June 2017.
Bought my first Corvair November 2017.
1965 Corvair Monza?/Corsa? Convertible.
Bill

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