Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

New to the site? Introduce yourself here.
User avatar
mdelvecc
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:46 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by mdelvecc »

Hello from Los Angeles everyone! Long time listener, first time caller...

I'm going to start off by saying thanks for all of the valuable information provided on this forum. You are super helpful for us newbie Corvair Converts!

About me: 38 years old, recording studio technician. This is my first Corvair! Always have been a tinkerer in electronic and mechanical things. I've never been too deep into auto mechanics, but I'm a hands on DIY guy, and am willing to learn what I don't yet know. I have an ever growing collection of tools!

The Corvair: Wife and I knew we wanted a Late Model convertible, and something that needed some TLC was preferred. I felt like I wanted a project to learn on. Looked at a few, then purchased the 65 Corsa 140 Vert at the end of last summer (2016) off Craigslist. I believe I am the 3rd owner - originally a Flagstaff, AZ car. Said 67,000 on the Odometer, but not sure it's still functioning! Ran (rough), stopped, and drove. Gears difficult to find, and wasn't comfortable driving it 100 miles home for sure. Delivered to my house on a trailer, and ran even worse! Started making a list of things to do... check fuel condition, spark plugs, oil, etc. I've come a long way, but there is a long way still to go. I'll likely post a progress thread separately, but the quick list is: Replaced fuel tank and sender, moved electric fuel pump to front near tank (PO had installed in engine bay), replaced all fuel lines, rebuild carbs, rebuilding shifter and shift linkage, compression test (0 on cyl 5) found dropped valve seat on CYL 5 intake valve, removed heads and evaluating next steps.

Research: I was lucky enough to inherit the shop manual, body manual, and assembly manual from the PO. I've purchased Bob Helt's - Rochester H carb book, Corvair Basics, and Corvair Secrets. I've also invested in all 3 volumes of the CORSA tech guide. Yes, I've become a CORSA member and a member of my local CORSA WEST chapter. The meetings have been great, and I've met some very helpful folks with lots of experience to share.

Goals: Get all of the mechanical functions working properly. Still on the list is the Engine, brakes, clutch, and the remaining suspension bushings that PO failed to replace. Down the road: Larger wheels and tires (currently stock 13"), body work, new paint, new interior. Talking about several years down the road to completion. Not in a hurry, but trying for steady progress.

Interesting history of the car: The car has a plaque above the radio that reads: "Made Especially For Gale Tyrrell". Originally sold/owned by Tyrrell Chevrolet in Flagstaff AZ. From my research, this dealership was taken over and has a new name. However, I did find that the family still owns the original Tyrrell Chevrolet in Cheyenne WY. I emailed Dallas Tyrrell from a link on the website, and he was kind enough to reply. Gale was his grandfather's cousin. Originally he worked in Cheyenne, but eventually started the Flagstaff Dealership. He's going to ask his father for more info, and I have sent him photos of the car at his request.

Here are some photos:
IMG_4290.JPG
IMG_4282.JPG
IMG_4288.JPG
IMG_4998.jpg
IMG_5437.jpg
Matt DelVecchio
1965 Corvair Corsa Convertible 140 - Work in progress :chevy:
Los Angeles, CA
Corsa West Member
User avatar
GasDaddy140
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Re: Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by GasDaddy140 »

You have one of the coolest cars ever produced in America! And, other automobile manufacturing countries as well!
You have excellent taste.
Alan Duquette
Rohnert Park, CA
"When in doubt...Hit the gas!" A.J. Foyt.

1965 Corvair Corsa (field find) Project
1971 Dodge Sportsman "shorty" 318 van
2015 Nissan Juke S
66vairguy
Posts: 4528
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by 66vairguy »

Nice car.

There are three clubs in the L.A. CA area. So what area are you living in?

If you've ever dealt with old cars before you'll know it takes awhile to separate good knowledge from well meaning B.S.

Your goals to "get it running" and take your time on major improvements is a good choice. A major all at once rebuild can overwhelm a person.

First things first - change all the lubricants. The number one transaxle failure cause is folks NEVER change the old gear oil. It DOES NOT have to be fancy modern high tech lube, clean lube is always better than old. You must use a GL-4 in a manual and the only readily available source is from STA-LUBE. I've even had it shipped in from Amazon! It's a bit thick, but fine in the warm S. Calif. area and it's not expensive (relatively speaking) and after a few months it will be black from the old lube and will need another change. I recall there was NO drain plug in 65-69. You can build an inexpensive pump and hose run by a drill - empties the transaxle in less than a minute. FORGET the hand pump.

Dan Drommerhausen is the L.A. Corvair transaxle guy and in the South Coast Corsa club (they have a Facebook presence).

Engine oil leaks are the next issue - easy to fix with some good advice. A brake fluid flush is also an excellent idea.

Oh - SCC has a garage run at a members place this Saturday in the Culver City area. I'm sure you could get an invite and meet some SCC folks. They are doing a valve adjustment and having a demo on changing the externally regulated alternator to an internally regulated alternator.
User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 11872
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by bbodie52 »

:wave: :welcome2: Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

It looks like you picked a fine example of the Corvair to work with, although I'm sorry to hear about the dropped valve seat (unfortunately an all too common occurrence with a 140 hp cylinder heads). Thanks to my parents, I have been around 1965-1966 Corvair Corsa convertibles since 1965, when I was about 12 years old. The 140 hp Corsa carried me and my family to locations all over the United States and in Germany during my 24 years in the Air Force. I have never had the misfortune of dropping a valve seat yet, but my current 1966 Corsa convertible does have a history of a dropped valve seat that occurred before I purchased it.

Image

I am familiar with your area. I graduated from high school in Thousand Oaks, and during my military career even managed to get an assignment that placed me in Camarillo and at Point Mugu (I worked as an Air National Guard technical advisor in Van Nuys when there was an Air National Guard base there). I was actually born in Van Nuys and lived in Woodland Hills until 1959, when we moved to San Jose. So I was pretty much a California kid until I joined the Air Force in 1972.

The fact that your Corsa convertible apparently has spent most of its life in Arizona and Southern California is a good sign. Rust and body rot — particularly in Corvair convertibles — can be a serious problem that you may not have to deal with. So if you find your Corvair to be largely rust free, you have a critical element necessary as the foundation for your restoration project. All the mechanical issues can be accomplished by the DIY "shade tree mechanic" who is willing to learn. But severe body rot issues in late-model convertibles can be insurmountable or at least very costly.
Here is some information that I dug up a few years ago with regard to deep seats for 140 hp heads. I don't know how current it is now...

HERE IS SOME INFO THAT I LOCATED ON THE WEB REGARDING CORVAIR VALVE SEATS, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH...

Valve Seats.

The biggest durability issue with the Corvair head is dropped valve seats. It used to be that only 140s were a noted problem, but since all the heads are 30 or more years old, the problem has started to show up in small valve heads as well. There are a few ways to deal with the problem:

First, you can stake the seats. This involves using a staking tool which fits in the guide and has a little chisel shaped plunger, you go all the way around the seat and peen some aluminum over the seat. This technique has been debated a bit, but it's safe to say that it only really works on heads that haven't been overheated. When Corvairs were fairly new, or better yet if you started with a new pair of heads, this probably worked pretty well. But nowadays how can you be sure the heads haven't been overheated?

Method two is the preferred racer's technique - remove the old seats entirely and replace with a bigger, deeper seat. Expensive, but the best way to go. You can also fix a set of heads by welding then installing new seats, if you do this you should plan on doing all the seats, because the other ones are probably loose too.

Next is a method that involves somehow mechanically locking the seat in place, either by machining screw threads into the head and seat, or by machining the seat with a flange on the bottom, the seat would be installed then heliarced into place. Warren LeVeque offers the latter "sunken" seats as an option when he prepares heads.

Finally, Chuck Cromwell sent me this neat trick for installing set screws. He's had very good luck with this method, so I'm happy to put it up here. I will make two observations that may help you be successful. First, don't do this to a set of heads that have dropped a seat and you're trying to get by with replacing just one seat. Second, I'd suggest using a drill press to get the holes in straight, and perhaps practice on a junk head first.

Do this before you do a valve grind. With a 1/16th drill, drill a hole 1/4 inch deep into the aluminum right against the seat. Opposite that hole, drill another 1/16th hole 1/4 inch deep. That will be 2 holes 180 degrees from each other. Now drill both holes with a 1/8th drill, and finish with a 9/64ths drill, maintaining your 1/4 inch depth. Tap both holes with a 5/32nds (Note: a 10-32 should be the same size) bottom tap using plenty of oil on the tap. This will stop the aluminum from plugging the flutes. When you finish tapping the holes, flush them out with a good solvent such as brake cleaner, lacquer thinner, etc. Look in the holes and you will see threads in the side of the seats. Using (red) locktight on your screws, screw the screws down tight and let the locktite set up overnight. Then, using a dremel tool with the thinnest cut off blade, cut the screws off as close to the head as possible. Finally, use a grindstone in your dremel tool and grind the screws off flush with the head.

http://autoxer.skiblack.com/heads.html

MORE INFO...

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/4carbs.html

Over the years the 140 Corvair engine has picked up somewhat of a reputation for dropped valve seats. Corvair cylinder heads are aluminum, so the seats, which have to be of a harder material, are pressed in.

According the Bob Galli, of the Virtual 'Vairs (VV) Internet e-mail discussion group, using valve seats that are stepped on the outside diameter (OD) might be a sure cure for 140s. They were recommended to him by Corvair engine guru Richard Finch. A company that makes custom stepped valve seats is the Tucker Valve Seat Company. Contact information is shown below:

Tucker Valve Seat Company
Toll free; USA: 1-800-362-7321
Toll free; Canada: 1-800-367-7321
Web site:
http://www.tuckervalveseat.com/

Another knowledgeable contributor to Virtual 'Vairs, Ed Corson of Corson's Classic Corvairs, believes a permanent fix for dropped valve seats involves taking your heads to a good aluminum head shop to have all the valve seats replaced with deep seats, and he points out that these same seats are used in Porsche heads and some VW heads.
Ed recommends the shop listed below, one which he's been doing business with for at least 23 years.

Fumio Fukaya Enterprises
4000 Alamo Street
Riverside, CA 92501
Tel: (909) 784-1251


NOTE: I tried a reverse lookup on the above phone number, but it produced nothing. However, a GOOGLE search for the above firm produced a result with the same address, but a different phone number area code, shown below:

Tel: (951) 784-1251

According to Ed, Fumio Fukaya arrived at California's Riverside Race Track about 30 years ago with a Japanese race team that raced a car with an all aluminum engine. When the team folded, he opened a shop in Riverside, where he would build/repair only aluminum head engines.

"He is so good and well known around the country and in racing circles," Ed told me, "that heads are sent to him for repair or remanufacture from all over the U.S. and Canada. I feel very fortunate to be located here where I was able to learn of him and get to know him. We have become very good friends and business acquaintances. I highly recommend him for Corvair heads. You can call him or send heads to him at the address and number listed, or if you would rather send them through me, contact me at Corson's Classic Corvairs."

Corson's Classic Corvairs
16953 Mockingbird Canyon Rd,
Riverside, CA 92504
Tel: (909) 780-7880

E-mail: EUGENE1938@aol.com

"A set of heads usually takes about 3 weeks to be completely redone with new deep seats and silicon/bronze valve guides. I recommend you disassemble the heads and clean them yourself, which will save you about $50.00. I also recommend that you not send him your valves, but replace them with new ones. After all if you are going to put that much effort into a set of heads you might just as well do it right."

Attached is a copy of the current Tucker Valve Seat Company catalog. I see Corvairs listed on page 74, but no reference to the 140 hp 164 CI engine. A phone call to the company might clarify this.

Image

Worldwide Phone: 800.362.7321
USA Toll Free Fax: 888.362.7344

Corporate Address

7309 Andrews Highway

Odessa,Texas 79765
If you need Corvair technical references, they can be downloaded using this link...

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

:link: http://www.corvairforum.com/forum/viewt ... 225&t=6007

I'm really looking forward to seeing your progress updates on your 1965 Corsa. Please keep in touch in the Corvair Forum.

:welcome:
Attachments
Tucker Valve Seat Company Catalog.pdf
Tucker Valve Seat Company Catalog
(3.05 MiB) Downloaded 17 times
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
66vairguy
Posts: 4528
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by 66vairguy »

In L.A. CA. most of the Corvair head rework is done by Bruce at Engine Machine Services. He's good about taking the time to explain what condition your heads are in. 140HP engines are notorious for dropping valve seats and the only reliable fix is to have DEEP valve seats and new valves installed. Not much more to to have the guides, springs, etc. replaced and you're good to go for a long time.

EMS
Address: 835 W Olive St, Inglewood, CA 90301
Phone: (310) 641-7019

Note, proper Corvair head repair is NOT cheap. Beware of anybody offering to do it cheap. Corvair heads have idiosyncrasies requiring an experienced rebuilder. They are different than other air cooled engines.

Sadly Ed Corson passed back in 2007 so that's not an option. I believe he made those adapters for the spin on oil-filter and I bought the last one from Clark's. Great piece of work on his part.
User avatar
mdelvecc
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:46 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by mdelvecc »

Thanks for the welcome notes guys!

66vairguy: I'm located in Northeast LA - near Glendale. I've considered joining the other 2 local clubs as well in the future, but for now with a 3 month old, I've barely got time to slip away once a month to the Corsa West meetings!

I'll also do another post updating my progress on the car in the last 9 months or so. As you recommended, transaxle fluid was drained (sadly with the hand pump!) and replaced with Amsoil GL4 from Clark's. Did the shift selector seal at that time, as it was leaking. Thanks for the referral to Dan... in case I run into any issues with the Trans.

One of the club members also referred Bruce at EMS. I will DEFINITELY be getting deep seats installed and I am prepared for some serious cost. I think it will be worth it!

Brad: Thanks so much for all of that info. Very helpful, and so cool that you lived so close years ago. It's a great area to have a convertible in, that's for sure!

I'll post some progress updates in a new thread over the weekend.
Matt DelVecchio
1965 Corvair Corsa Convertible 140 - Work in progress :chevy:
Los Angeles, CA
Corsa West Member
66vairguy
Posts: 4528
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Hello! Bought a 1965 Corsa 140 vert

Post by 66vairguy »

You can pull the heads in the car, BUT it takes some serious gymnastics and is not for the inexperienced. Of course you may just take it to a Corvair shop, but beware the cost will be considerable on top of the heads rebuild.

DO NOT pull the engine off the transaxle in the car - the input shaft interference will can result in damage if you don't have the proper lift and knowledge.

Just pull out the entire drivetrain - seems like a lot of work, but sometime what looks like the hard way is actually easier. Then you can get to to things like the heater assy. and check the brake and fuel lines. Removing hardware is easier with the engine out versus bent over a fender.
Post Reply

Return to “Introductions”