County98's Learn as I Go Thread

[County98]

I had another order in from Clark's for trunk and engine compartment weather-stripping and misc doodads, so decided to treat myself and get a repop set of wheel well trim.

Overall, pretty happy with them for my car, but would give them a 7 out of 10 overall. Wouldn't use them on a points car. They get a couple stars for just being available at all, but they are thinner, softer, and have some tooling marks and slight creases from forming. They fit PRETTY good, but not perfect. I do understand that a mid 60's economy car assembly line had a lot of variances though. On the upside, they are soft enough that after install, they can be massaged a bit to close up gaps in the body lines.

Mine weren't destroyed, but looked like crap and I'm getting tired of the cleaning up and fighting with the old anodizing.

Old vs. New:

Slight creasing from tooling:

Clarks Disclaimer. Fair enough.

Slight gapping at body lines. Standard for all 4 wheels.

I'll roll with them, they saved me a lot of time and work. After the car is back on the ground, a lot of it won't be noticeable.

[Project65]

They certainly do dress up the finish with the bright shine. I’ll be looking into those for my be when I get that far. Thanks for sharing so I know what to expect.

[County98]

Just posting this one because I'm a dum-dum.

5 minute job cost me an extra run to town because I wasn't paying attention. For the washer pump/nozzles/reservoir, there are TWO sizes of tubing.

In retrospect, makes sense that the filter/reservoir cap/pump would need double the volume of the 2 individual nozzle lines, but I didn't think of that. I just grabbed a conveniently small piece and went and got 8ft of tubing that I only needed 1ft of. Get them both, lol.

Filter to inside of cap, and cap to pump:

Yup. 5 minutes of work and 2 trips to town later...

[County98]

Todays project was the frunk weatherstripping. Part # C805R (Trunk) and C805RR (Engine) seem to be the same part, maybe just different lengths. This is another thing that didn't turn out perfect, probably because I've never done it before. I think the Engine compartment will come out better when I get that far, because of the things I learned and messed up a little on this one.

Clarks instructions are pretty complete, I just didn't heed some of it enough. Learn from my mess ups...mmmmm, k?

Tools: Basically just the weatherstrip adhesive and a dull pizza cutter for rolling in the edge. Works pretty good. Marked the back center with a silver sharpie for my starting point.

K, lessons learned. I practiced a little with dry weatherstrip to get a feel for how it sits in there. The interior edge hooks under the lip of sheetmetal, and the "bow" of the weatherstrip curves to the outside all the way around.

First tip...go very sparingly with the adhesive. On my first corner, it came out a little fast and I didn't catch it. When it gets on the visible weatherstrip, it kind of looks like hell. Hopefully after it all sets, I can clean it off a bit with some thinner or something.

When you do the corners, it gets a little tricky since there isn't a lip on the channel there. Never stretch the strip, always compress it as you go a bit but ESPECIALLY in the corners or they will not sit quite flat. Speaking of which, I thought I had the channels pretty clean, but ANY bumps or debris will affect how it sits in there. Once you've got it all cleaned out...do it again...

When I do it again, I will move the seam to the rear. Factory correct or not, I didn't do the greatest job of making it invisible.

Sides came out pretty straight, so that works at least.

Overall, a pretty quick job. The non-"hooked" side of the strip (outboard), didn't seem to want to sit very square down in the channel, I almost wish there was slightly less material on that edge so it would sit down nicer. I did not have to adjust my striker, the frunk closed with what feels like a nice seal. Leaving it closed overnight for the glue to set, so maybe it will all settle into the channel a bit more.

[County98]

Todays adventure was replacing the fuse panel with the Racers, Inc panel. Not too bad, nice product overall and I'm happy I did it. I had dremeled up my old panel a while back, but wanted more versatility and a little more stable setup. Cleaning up the front contacts didn't do anything about the back of the stock panel.

New panel seems to be well made and adds enough latitude for growth compared to what was stock 50+ years ago. Instructions are pretty good, and you just go step by step, so won't cover them all here, just the highlights.

Old panel, significant corrosion all the way around. Good peace of mind to be using clean wire ends in new connectors.

After you cut out the old panel, fairly simple wire bundle.

New panel lays out which terminals get "up" connectors, "down" connectors, or both. Just unscrew terminal points and put on the offset spades.

New panel comes with rivets, and I have a gun so used them, but not sure why we don't just put the screws back in. Maybe a clearance issue, but that could be solved with a little taller stand offs.

Riveted my back plate in, but after enlarging the screw holes a bit, the new back plate seemed to have a little play in it, I may not have had it perfectly flat. I just used a couple foam wedges from the weather-stripping to solidify it up a bit so it doesn't rattle or flex.

New panel all in.

Notes on mine:
I'm running an aftermarket stereo head unit, so I have 2 yellow radio wires. One is add on constant memory power, and I'm using the stock radio power as the switched power to turn it on with keyed power.

My additional white wires are for Seth's fuel pump relay using the tach trigger. I did not change it over to the on board accessory relay yet, because I don't know if I may want to use that for something else later. I'm also using my stock flasher for now, not the onboard one with the new panel.


Constructive critiques...and my panel has been on the shelf for a year or so, so may have already been addressed. I would absolutely buy and install this panel again, these are just things I ran into today that would make the new panel 100 out of 100. Very nit-picky.

-To use the new flasher, instructions call out using the 25" purple extension wire, but my setup didn't have one in the box.
-On final assembly, when you're plugging stuff back in, instructions call out the wiper to connect to "Fuse #5 10-amp", but my panel has a 15 amp fuse in that spot.
-Some of the identifiers for fuses called out in the instructions don't match what is actually on the panel, little confusing.
-The labelling on the panel is a little offset from the actual terminals, had to go back a couple times and figure out which fuse was which.
-Wish the extension wires were an inch or two longer, my Heater power was a little bit of a tight fit.
-I don't have the Battery wired in yet, so will be a non issue once I get that far and I can put a meter on it, but would have been nice in my case to have an extra full size photo in the instructions specifying exactly which terminals are always hot vs switched power.

Overall seems to be a great upgrade for folks not staying 100% stock and want some extra options. I like it.

[County98]

Finished battery install today. Had some success and some problems I could use some direction on. Haven't started troubleshooting anything with a meter yet, just got the battery stuff hooked up and second time I've ever put power on the car. First time was a couple years ago, and just for fun to see what worked.

I've been trying to be super thorough with my grounds, but I've been painting a bunch of stuff as well, so may have missed something.

First was the battery. I'm using a Group 24F, and liked Brads idea of using a battery box to keep everything cleaned up and isolated. Grabbed a Grp 24 battery box at Walmart, $13 or something.


No motor in the car yet, so ran the 10g chassis ground to the inside of the frame rail. I'll also do 2 more 10g grounds from the engine tins to the body later on, for radio and extra ground paths.

For the hot side, I decided not to buy a new Horrible Red Thingy (or whatever the tie point is called), and went with a Maxi Fuse to isolate the front of the car from the back. Stayed with 10g for now, and used a 60amp Maxi Fuse. I'll be using an upgraded alternator with a full tilt max output of 63amps, but don't expect to ever run at that load.

Most seems to be working as advertised with the new fuse panel as well, but have some issues right out of the gate. Lights work at least.

Okay, so this stuff all works:

Headlights, High and Low
Tail Lights
Brake Lights
Rear Turn Signals
Radio
Wiper Motor
Cig Lighter
Heater Motor (variable speeds, but seems overall low to me)
Driver parking light (just parking, no blinker)


Does NOT work:

No front blinkers at all
No dash lights at all
One front parking light (intermittent on/off and brightness. May be a grounding issue)
Horns


Can't test yet:

Any engine stuff, none hooked up, no motor
Gauges themselves, no senders hooked up, except maybe fuel level, but doesn't seem to move
Wiper washer

Any easy starting points?

[bbodie52]

Does NOT work:

No front blinkers at all
No dash lights at all
One front parking light (intermittent on/off and brightness. May be a grounding issue)
Horns

Check the front bulb condition. Check with multimeter for turn signal voltage reaching the sockets, and the socket grounding for the bulbs. Also check the 1157 bulb insertion for proper alignment with socket contacts.

1157 bulbs have two filaments (two connectors on the bottom) and are grounded through the metal bulb case (bayonet connector) to the socket housing. They are used in both the front and rear. In the rear, the dim filament provides the taillight, and the bright filament provides both the brake stop light and the turn signal. In the front, they provide for driving lights (dim) and turn signals. Notice that the anchor pins (studs) are not at the same level from the bottom. This helps to ensure that the 1157 bulb only fits into the socket one way, so that the bright filament is properly connected to the stop and turn signal circuit.




As shown below, check the instrument panel grounding.





The Corsa and Monza instrument panels can also develop problems with the electric instruments. The panels are plastic, so a metal conductive grounding strap links the electric gauges together and then ties them to chassis ground at a single point. If the single screw that attaches that grounding strap to the metal dashboard becomes loose or corroded, the electrical ground to the instrument panel components may be lost and this can disrupt the operation of the electric gauges and illumination lights.



Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing or "Pan & Scan". Click a second time for maximum enlargement...

1965 Corvair Corsa Full Schematic

1965-1969 Corvair Trunk Schematic Diagram

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS

viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

[County98]

Cool, thanks Brad.

Front marker light was an internally shorted brand new 1157. Never seen that before. It was brighter because both filaments would light briefly and then it would all slow flicker. Weird. Verified with different bulb in marker socket, then took the suspect bad bulb and put it in a tail light, same thing. Switched out bad 1157 and marker lights all good to go.

Had a new headlight switch on hand, so changed that out as well. Old one had iffy contacts.

I was hoping the shorted bulb would solve the no front turn issue, but no joy on that.

Quickly verified good power to horn relay, but no ground on the horn button line. Looks like I'm taking the steering column apart tomorrow (I thought I was all good to go on that from a couple years ago), and I'll re-pull the gauges as well and try to hunt the grounding issue. I have good power on the "Inst Lts" in and out of the fuse panel, but nothing working in the dash.

If it makes a difference on the turn signal issue, both tail light blinkers work as advertised, relay clicking (of course), but no front signals OR dash turn indicators at all.

[bbodie52]

A faulty instrument panel ground would prevent the left and right turn signal indicator bulbs from working, as they would have no ground return path to complete the circuit. However, the two front turn signal circuits piggyback off of the multi-connector that feeds both the instrument panel turn signal lights and the front turn signal lights.

Looking at the turn signal switch layout, I cannot see what single mechanical fault in the layout would affect both sides and prevent the front bulbs from receiving power. There could be corroded or loose/damaged connectors pins in the steering column multi-connector, or a problem further down the line in the trunk pass-thru multi-connector. They could be separate problems, such as a bad ground at the instrument panel, and a bad ground or bad connection to the trunk bulbs. Some work with a multimeter and probe should tell you how far the front turn signal voltage is getting, and if the problem is within the turn signal switch or in the harness and multi-connectors somewhere. You could start at the front bulb sockets with a multimeter to check for flashing voltage, or check at the steering column switch output connector (whichever is easier).

[County98]

While I've got everything back apart for troubleshooting, I decided to upgrade to LED dash bulbs. Took a shot and ordered a couple 10pks of Yoper frosted LEDs in a couple different colors. Pretty cheap on Amazon. Short profile, and frosted for a little better light diffusion. I'm the one who marked them with a sharpie since they all look the same.

Only the 2 big bezels were lit up for comparison testing. This is full voltage off a battery jumper, not sure if they're dimmable or not. Not listed as such, but some will dim down to 70% or so before they cut off. Easy enough to play with if I don't like them later.

White LED's vs Stock 1895 bulbs.

Blue LED vs White LED (which shows as factory green)

Went with the white, so go a brighter factory green looking gauges.

[County98]

On my troubleshooting issues, I found a couple things, and a couple basic things that I induced. Go figure.

My horn relay seems to be a goner, so have a new one on order. Jumpered the contacts at the relay and both horns went off, and have good power to relay. Not sure why I was missing the ground signal the first time, but did a good continuity test from the horn button to the relay termination and had good continuity. I'll try a new relay when it comes in.

Passenger turn signal looks to be in the column turn signal switch. I have a new one on order. When I initially changed out the wheel, I had replaced the turn signal rocker only, so in retrospect I should have done the whole thing while I was in there. Verified the signal path to the light from the column and blinker works just fine. Plastic switch is cracked and lever was loose. We'll see what happens.

For the gauges, that was on me. I was careful, but still ended up with the ground strap over the car metal when I had pushed it all together, so was basically pointing up in the air behind the dash and not really connected to anything.

While it was all out, took apart and recleaned every connector, mount tab, and light socket. Don't want to have to pull it a third time for my own stupidity...

Dash before if anyone needs a pic.

What the Corsa ground strap spider looks like.

This dremel attachment is an abrasive "needle" that actually fits into female spade connectors. It's money, works perfectly for cleaning everything up.

Decided since I was ordering turn signal switch anyway, I'm going to change out wiper switch as well since it's wide open right now. I'll reassemble as soon as my parts come in.

[Scott H]

Nice work Shayne!

[County98]

Thanks Scott, appreciate you buddy.

Took a little break while the weather was crap and waiting for a couple things to come in.

Everything electrical seems to be working 100%. Thanks for the tips Brad, always appreciated!

I had NOT put LED bulbs in my turn or bright indicators, but since my lenses were long ago lost, I had tried some green and blue plastic sheeting from school binder dividers when I rebuilt the gauges awhile back. Worked, but was still too bright. Found a place online where you can order colored 1895's (I ordered an extra set).

Seems to work pretty good. I looks like they're just spray painted bulbs, but works fine and was cheap enough.

Horn issue was the relay. Clarks replacement turns out to be the same one I could have went and got at FLAPS, different brand, but direct replacement and took care of the problem.

The big solving piece was the turn signal switch in the column. It was a mistake not to change it out when I did the indicator arm before, so live and learn, lol. Action is much more positive and turn signals all work like a champ.

Except engine stuff, I'm completely good to go on the whole car electrical right now, so pretty stoked about that!
Edit*- Except dome light. Power is good, but my door switches are wonky, just leaving the bulb out for now, I have no headliner yet.

Couple small things on the reassembly. While I'm happy with the cheap LED's, it turns out they do not dim at all. They stay the same brightness until they reach the cutoff voltage, and then just shut off. Oh well. If it turns out it bothers me too much, I'll change them out later on.

There's also a plastic wire hiding strip that goes on the bottom of the steering column for the turn harness. When I had changed it out and put it together, I didn't realize I had used a slightly longer screw to fasten to the column. After I put it together, I had a horrible grinding sound when turning the wheel. Figured out what it was and used a zip tie instead. At least it was an easy fix, I had a panic moment that something was wrong in the column again...

Next up I'm changing out the 3 emergency brake pulleys and the clutch pulley with the aluminum one from Clarks. I have the pulleys changed out, but while I was at it, I realized just how bad the cabling was and have some coming in. More to follow on the cable install.

Old pulleys:

New vs Old on my worst one behind the pedal.

[Project65]

This is a great thread Shayne. I love the details. It’s great to see others still restoring project vehicles after all these years. When do you expect to set sail on the maiden voyage?

[County98]

Thanks John. This has been my "tinkering" project for a long time. Plan keeps changing and I deploy a lot, but putting in some dedicated time. Kind of working my way to the back, but every major system is getting overhauled. Hoping to get it running in 60 days or so!

[bbodie52]

While I'm happy with the cheap LED's, it turns out they do not dim at all. They stay the same brightness until they reach the cutoff voltage, and then just shut off. Oh well. If it turns out it bothers me too much, I'll change them out later on.

How Dimmable LED Lights Work

There are two main methods of LED dimming: Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) and analogue. In the case of PWM, dimmable LEDs work by creating a dimming effect. Unlike traditional lighting such as incandescent, dimmable LED bulbs don't rely on voltage to dictate their level of brightness. Instead, they essentially rely on a cycle of being on and off. These cycles operate in a matter of milliseconds, so you won't be aware of them actually turning on and off. For example, if you have dimmed your lights to 10%, they will be 'on' for 10% of the time and 'off' for 90%. For analog, the process is more straight-forward. This is where the current is controlled to either dim or brighten the lights – increasing or decreasing accordingly.

https://ledhut.co.uk/blogs/news/five-th ... led-lights

The inexpensive Light Emitting Diode (LED) bulbs use electronic LEDs that either have enough voltage to function, or they don't. The dimming rheostat (adjustable resistor) in the Corvair light switch works for analog bulbs, but will not dim LED bulbs. Reducing the power to an LED bulb just drops it below the level needed to make it function. The LED turns off, instead of reducing the light output.