Confirmed and detailed engine swaps?

[ishigakisensei]

I did a search here and on Google and all I found is a lot of people talking about doing a Subaru swap and one blog that looked like it died in 2010. I'm a civilian teacher (with no engineering skills whatsoever) living in Japan so getting a Subaru engine is quite easy and I can get a Corvair imported if its worth doing so. I'm personally a huge fan of the late model Fitch Sprint, specifically this one in Martin, Tennessee:



and I hope to find one in decent shape for realistic money (shipping to Japan ain't free) some day soon. Getting parts and paint won't be too hard with some of my connections, but what concerns me is a great deal of trial-and-error custom fabricating that costs more here than in the US. This is why I ask if there exists a "kit" of some kind that exists but may not be posted here.

The Corvair doesn't need Corvette power, but it could use more. Does something exist for those who would like an engine swap or is this is a case of more talk than engineering/money? I have some money but absolutely no engineering abilities on my own.

[azdave]

I won't sugarcoat my reply. No such kits exists. Even if you find an old Kelmark or Crown V8 kit you have quite a bit of fabrication to complete. That is why you see so many projects start but few will reach completion. A swap like a Subie or other more unique power system is rare and always a one-off venture. It is a whole lot of work to do one completely and many people give up or run out of funds/skills halfway through the project. You will end up with a chopped up car that gets sold years later for way under what you have invested. Think hard before you undertake such a venture. It can certainly be done if you have the drive and funds to keep at it.

[flat6_musik]

But.....one thing that concerns me is that the corvair engine rotates counter-clockwise. Does the Subie? I doubt it, right? That would seem to be a pretty big hurdle if it doesn't.

[indianalakewood1961]

I think Anthony Johnson & another guy were doing some work with Subaru motors in Corvairs. They live in Ohio and members of an Ohio Corvair Club. They had a prototype at the Performance Workshop back in March in Indy..

[ishigakisensei]

I have a clearer picture now. Its good, but disappointing, to find out the state of things. I have tools and mechanical abilities, but I don't have a welder or skills in using one nor do I have the skills or equipment to fabricate parts. I know Kugel made (still makes?) a kit to make a Ford Focus a RWD car with a V8 engine swap and I was being optimistic in thinking that perhaps something along this line has also been developed for the Corvair. Perhaps the market for Corvair engine swaps is much smaller than it is for Ford Focus V8 swaps?

I sounds like its better to just stick with the Chevy engine. At least this guy has serious power out of a Vair engine:



but I find this more than I would even want for a special occassion/daily(?) driver. The Subaru Legacy B4 engine makes a little over 250hp at the crank and thats plenty for what I'd want. Is there a realistic and affordable way to at least approach this amount in a turbo (I cannot imagine a NA motor making that much, but what do I know......) engine?

Also, I think that I already know the answer, but how difficult is it to source a Fitch Sprint? The one in the video is the smoothest one that I have ever seen. That look with at least 200hp would make me happy.

[miniman82]

Why not make an adaptor so you can fit a Subie flat 6? A heavy car like the all steel Corvair would be at a disadvantage with even a turbo Legacy motor, but a turbo Tribeca engine would be tits. The naturally aspirated EZ36 3.6L engine makes 250hp and about the same on torque, which is what gets the car down the road. I imagine that if you turbo it, you'd be well north of 300hp and still have a good margin of reliability. Granted you'll have to run water lines up front and add a radiator, but that's a given anyway.

You might want to contact Kennedy, to see if they've ever had someone try to put an EZ36 in a Corvair. They may already have the adaptor in stock, if not they may help you make/get one.

http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/default.aspx

There is the whole wrong direction thing with the engine though...

Then there's the alternative: Why not just turbo and inject a Corvair? They can make plenty of power, and still be reliable. You should not automatically throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. For about the same money as the conversion you could have triported heads, and Japan has all the EFI electronics you could dream of along with the tuning know-how to make it work. Plus, it'll still be air cooled. Something to think about.

[ishigakisensei]

Why not make an adaptor so you can fit a Subie flat 6?

I have no ability to do so other than paying someone to create it. In the US, this can be pricey. Here in Japan, I cannot even imagine how much it would cost. Doing something different is often a Japanese is the only language where the words for "different" and "wrong" are the same.

If a "kit" were to exist akin to what Kugel did for the Focus, then this would be a different story. I have tools for a plug-n-play system but a machine shop, I do not have. If those guys create a kit, I'd imagine that people would be interested.

[Motornoggin]

3:30 minute video and we didn't get to hear it run?!???

[miniman82]

I have no ability to do so other than paying someone to create it. In the US, this can be pricey. Here in Japan, I cannot even imagine how much it would cost.

Then you need to sit down and figure out what exactly you're able to do with the money you can commit- ask yourself what you want to do with the car, and write a number down that reflects your ability to back the decision with your wallet. If all you want is a kit, there's no problem with that. But I hesitate to toss out the Corvair engine for a smaller 4-cylinder, even if it's turbo. FWIW, no kit is truely ever 'complete'. You're talking about putting a water cooled engine into an air cooled body, that has 'special modifications' written all over it. IMO if you want a project, you should buy some parts for the engine the car already has and do a rebuild. Heck, you could triport the thing for about the same cost as the conversion, keep the engine, and you wouldn't have to fabricate anything. The parts are available, and don't require special tools or shop support to do.

I guess I'm getting mixed signals here, you want to do this big expensive project overseas with no machine shop support... Or at least not expensive support, which is an oxymoron in your case.

[flat6_musik]

3:30 minute video and we didn't get to hear it run?!???

Oh, I knowwww!!.....I've watched that video a number of times and about 1/2 way thru I thought..."now wait a minute, we're not even gonna hear it run or even dyno out?!??" Gimme a break. What a letdown.

[ishigakisensei]

3:30 minute video and we didn't get to hear it run?!???

One would think that if the engine was solid, it'd be out racing by now and someone somewhere would have gotten a video of it and posted such online.

I guess I'm getting mixed signals here, you want to do this big expensive project overseas with no machine shop support... Or at least not expensive support, which is an oxymoron in your case.

I'm not the least bit being snotty when I say that I thought that I was clear in what my ideas are. The Legacy B4 engine is a boxer six engine by the way. The WRX STi is the four cylinder. The Legacy B4 has around 250hp, are ubiquitous here, and cheap at a salvage yard. I do have shop support, but I do not have the desire nor the cash to send a car there for 6-12 months while they tinker and trial-and-error custom fab parts to find out finally what kinda works. There are not enough hours in a year for me to comp English lessons for the families to cover what cash won't. That is why I mention something like the Kugel kit for the Ford Focus. When parts are already fabbed up and only need welding in specified spots then that is entirely different than sending the car to shop that has no idea about its history and how to modify it without a pre-fabbed kit and instructions.

Sure, I could easily get Japanese sports cars like a 240Z (Fairlady) with a RB26DETT swap, FD RX7 with a Cosmo 3-Rotor swap, S15 Silvia with a SR24 big bore kit, or even a MarkIV Supra with a Toyota V12 engine swap - though not tuned to the level that Top Secret built their's. Going fast in Japan is very very easy because the Shakken system is cumbersome and most Japanese don't know how to manipulate it. Car guys do. This makes older cars dirt cheap especially sports cars with manual transmissions. But, all those cars, while lusted after by those in the US, are just not all that special here. bbodie52 shared the story of his time with the Corvair overseas and I would like something different as well. It doesn't have to be the fastest or most expensive, just different than what everyone else has.

When I lived on Ishigaki, I had a R32 Skyline GTS-4. It had 250hp and was AWD. The Corvair lacks AWD, but 250hp is a very nice number to play with. Not too much. Not too little. Some guys I knew on Okinawa had over 500hp GTRs and one guy even had a JUN built engine pumping out 800hp is a R31 GTS-R. That is more than I need or really even want. I don't want or desire a V8 conversion. The Corsa turbo puts out 180hp and that's close but not in the 250hp neighborhood. If the Corsa engine/turbo/exhaust can by tuned to make at least 220hp, then even that would be acceptable and no need for an engine swap.

It looks like the scooby engine is a no go no matter what because such a swap has not been engineered out to the point that so many other engine swaps already are. Unless this changes, at least people thinking out such a swap after seeing the research that I have will see this thread and realize that although a logical idea, the engineering is not yet done. Seeing others think out loud exploring options that may be viable or even non-viable is useful. Thomas Edison proved many ways to not make a light bulb.

It seems that the best way to make power is to stick with the Corvair engine and look into fuel injection and a modified stock turbo or even a modern turbo. Here in Japan, we have Kei Cars with 660cc turbocharged engines. Perhaps, they could be used in a twin turbo setup as they are small and don't make monster power to blow the engine. I do not know the exact model, but the Suzuki Hayabusa guys run a turbo on their 1.3L motorcycle engine so perhaps the one they use could be used in a twin turbo setup as well. I don't have the ability to research or try the engineering to find out, but it'd be interesting to see the results.

[Scott V]

But.....one thing that concerns me is that the corvair engine rotates counter-clockwise.

thats right - when looking @ the rear of the car - but looking @ the front of the car the vair engine rotates clockwise. thats why crown mfg could make a kit to install a v-8 in the back seat while running the vair transaxle.

if someone wants to do a rear engine swap & run the vair transaxle - they will need a engine that rotates counter-clockwise looking @ the crank pulley. if the builder wants to do a mid-engine swap & run the vair transaxle - they can use a engine that rotates clockwise looking @ the crank pulley. they can also do a rear engine swap & run any of the common transaxles.

-Scott V.