Melting wires, simple question

[NMVair]

I have a 1964 Monza with a 1968 140hp engine with a simple electronic ignition. The wires are severely melting or have melted, i.e. the wiring harness got hot, there's a short, and the insulation is melting. In fact they are still getting hot. I still have ro trace down the problem.

My question is do I get an earlyvmodel harness or a late model harness? I don't know what's on there.

[cnicol]

64 engine harness. You may have to modify for an alternator or Clarks/M&H may offer a 64 harness already modified.
Obviously you need to find the cause of the high current or short.
Exactly what do you have for electronic ignition and coil? Any wiring modifications?

[NMVair]

It's a stinger distributor ignition, the coil has zero ohms of resistance and the resistor wire has been bypassed. That's it for modifications. But that's what I thought it would be a 64 wiring harness.

[NMVair]

Oh and I do have an alternator. Any direction on this proceedor.

[bbodie52]

A clear, detailed photograph of your 1964 engine compartment may be helpful, as it may help us to see what you have there and what changes to the electrical hardware have been made. A close-up of the heated/melted/damaged wiring would also probably be helpful in communicating the nature of your wiring problems.

There are numerous aftermarket electronic ignition systems and ignition coils on he market. Knowing which specific items were installed will help us to confirm compatibility and properly wired components in your Corvair system. Photographs and/or written descriptions of the installed hardware (make and model numbers) may help with troubleshooting your electrical issues.

Do you have any automotive electrical systems knowledge or experience? Do you own a digital or analog multimeter?

When I was a teen and learning how to successfully accomplish DIY maintenance and repairs on my parent's 1965 Corvair Corsa — and on my own 1962 Monza,1963 Corvair Monza Spyder and 1966 Corvair Corsa (turbocharged), I made extensive use of the 1961 and 1965 Corvair shop manuals. I supplemented them with a series of Petersen's publications like the one shown below. I was amazed at how the information contained in the Chevrolet shop manuals suddenly made more sense after reading the Petersens's book series on basic electrical systems, basic carburetors and fuel systems, basic suspension and brake systems, etc. I also discovered that GM publications like the attached 1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS, HARNESSES & SCHEMATICS are a great and very informative supplement to the factory shop manuals. Clarks Corvair Parts offers both the shop manuals and supplements, and the assembly manuals for each Corvair model year. Used copies of the Petersens automotive series can often be found on Amazon.com and eBay at a low cost. You might consider building up a reference library in your garage/home to increase your knowledge and abilities as a DIY home mechanic. Technical references like these — coupled with help from the Corvair Forum, and possibly a local CORSA club chapter (if one is available) can bring about a great deal of successful work as a home hobbyist and DIY mechanic!

Petersen's Basic Ignition and Electrical Systems Paperback – January 1, 1971

https://www.amazon.com/Petersens-Basic- ... C90&sr=8-1

Every owner/enthusiast who wants his car to deliver peak performance—whether on street or strip—knows that tip-top ignition and electrical systems are most important. Being able to diagnose problem areas and made needed repairs under emergency or shop conditions can save time, money and aggravation. This book, then, has the same purpose as the other books in our basic automotive technical series—to help remove some of the mysteries of operation and offer some expert tips for maintenance and repair. Photos and diagrams included.

https://ssl.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalo ... _page=243B

Ultimately every electrical device in the car gets its voltage from the battery positive terminal. The other half of the circuit has a ground return to the battery negative terminal (via the vehicle chassis ground). The multimeter allows you to "see" this voltage, test for its presence, and determine where the interruption is so that the fault can be corrected. Electrical troubleshooting and fault isolation is a critical skill that you can easily learn. Just look at the wiring diagram as you would look at a road map, so that you can trace the electrical path from the source (battery positive) to the destination (battery negative, or GROUND).




The 1964 engine compartment wiring schematic depicts a ten pin multiconnector (located below the voltage regulator). The 1963 schematic shows an eight pin multiconnector. You might take a look to see which harness is in use in your 1964 Corvair. This will help you to zero-in on the correct wiring harness components for your Corvair.

LEFT-CLICK THE IMAGE TO ENLARGE FOR BETTER VIEWING. CLICK A SECOND TIME FOR MAXIMUM ENLARGEMENT...

1963 Corvair Passenger Car Combined Schematic

1964 Corvair Passenger Car Combined Schematic

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS

viewtopic.php?t=12968

This catalog comes from the company that manufactures the wiring harnesses that Clark's Corvair Parts sells. The catalog, and thr M&H customer support phone number can be very helpful in answering your wiring harness questions.

M&H Wiring Logo.jpg (51.16 KiB) Viewed 498 times

M&H Wiring Harness Catalog - Corvair (2023).pdf

M&H Wiring Harness Catalog - Corvair (2023)

(464.46 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

[Dennis66]

It's a stinger distributor ignition, the coil has zero ohms of resistance and the resistor wire has been bypassed.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, "Zero OHMS of resistance" would be a shorted coil. I would say disconnect all electrical from the coil. Get two jumpers and hook one from ground of the coil to ground terminal of a battery, hook the other to the positive terminal of the coil and briefly touch it to the positive of the battery. Big spark? Definitely shorted coil. Dennis

[NMVair]

I ment to send pictures but I forgot to get them. It's quite a sight. It appears it might be one wire but I'll get you guys some pics.
I have a multi meter, but like with so many guys it's intimidating. So it's not my strong suit. But I will persevere and trace down the problem.

[gbullman]

I ment to send pictures but I forgot to get them. It's quite a sight. It appears it might be one wire but I'll get you guys some pics.
I have a multi meter, but like with so many guys it's intimidating. So it's not my strong suit. But I will persevere and trace down the problem.

I get the intimidation aspect but once you have some success and build confidence these cars are pretty simple electrically. It will probably be helpful to see if there is a club around you could reach out to. We have 30 or so active members and help each other out all the time.

[Frank DuVal]

the coil has zero ohms of resistance

Most multimeters, DMMS, etc, do a real poor job of reading about an ohm, so zero might just be normal.
There are specialty low ohm, milli-ohms and micro-ohm meters. Too expensive for hobbyists. Best we can do is touch the leads together and note the reading. Then measure the coil and subtract the initial reading from this reading. Will still be +/- an ohm or two.

Go by the manufacturers specs to design the ignition system changes, not your meter readings.

[66vairguy]

I agree with Craig, replace the harness if it has more than two melted wires. I've been working on car wiring as a hobby for decades. Occasionally I'll go help a club member and find a disaster and tell the owner they will be further ahead to install a new harness. NOW --- that new harness will have to plug into an old connector on the car harness and that may in sad shape. We had club raffle car and put in a new engine harness, but had to splice in a new connectors AND contacts onto the existing body harness.

I've done a few EM to alternator wiring jobs and I give the owners a marked up wiring diagram so they know were to look, or so someone else can use it.

It is labor intensive (EXPENSIVE to pay someone) to reverse engineer someone's "creative wiring" without documentation. Even though I don't charge to help club folks, I ALWAYS document what I've done and give a copy to the owner so other's can figure it out if needed.

[66vairguy]

I recall the Stinger distributor used a low impedance coil, similar to the HEI 0.6 ohms and as Frank said the basic DMM is not accurate at that value. Seth E. sold them for awhile until EVERYONE was selling them on ebay.

I think Seth put out a memo saying to use a higher impedance coil since the Stinger was having issues with the low impedance coil. BTW this is a problem with inexpensive HEI module units.

See attached .pdf from Seth about the Stinger.

[NMVair]

So it's the wires involved with the alternator that are fried. The problem is I ordered the 64 harness and it originally had a generator. Will it have these wires?

[Frank DuVal]

Oh, wow! That's ugly. The short answer is no, the 64 harness does not have those wires, exactly. The generator only has two wires going to it, the alternator you have has three wires. Someone added the Yellow wire, which is connected to a red wire lead at the alternator (going to the bolt). The original color wires were blue and brown. These might be the wires spliced into the red and white wires at the alternator plug.

Oh wait! The original blue and brown wires are hanging there down by the oil cooler! With the eyelets (ring terminals) still on. I do hope the other ends (at the original voltage regulator) are also disconnected.

Is that green corrosion?

You will need to make up that short three wire harness and add it to the 64 harness. #10 awg for the heavy lead to the alternator bolt and 16 awg for the other two wires going to the alternator plug.

[Lane66Monza]

A key to rewiring your alternator. Keep splices out of the wiring circuit. Use a constant wire from alternator to battery and the engine harness connections. Splices can corrode leading to poor contact. If used on the smaller alternator wires, it could lead to alternator going into unregulated operation. Hence melted alternator wiring.

[cnicol]

M&H Electric does offer a 64 Corvair engine harness already modified for an internally regulated alternator, part number 44053.
[Url][https://wiringharness.com/ymm-search-re ... ine_id=102][url]

That harness will take care of the rewiring but the cause of the meltdown should be determined. Was it sketchy wiring or a shorted component?

[Frank DuVal]

That’s good to know Craig!

And I agree that unneeded splices can cause trouble. Especially if not done well. You should not be able to pull a splice apart with your hands.

Heat shrink helps keep water out. Heat shrink with hot glue inside even better. Cut pieces of hot glue stick with a “Stanley Knife” or something. Slide the glue slivers under the heat shrink then heat to melt the glue and shrink the tubing.