Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Last year I put my 62 Wagon on the road and put in a temporary engine so I could work out any issues and get some mileage on it last summer. Well it has come time to build the engine that will be in in permanently.
It will use the original wagon 102 case that has been clearanced from the longer throw crank of the 140. I will be using a Otto20 cam, .030 forged pistons and modified 140 heads and fuel injection system.
I have already machined the heads with deep valve seats, bronze valve guides, crower springs and titanium retainers. The CR is 9.5:1 with a .042 head gasket and the step milled out. I am running 2 "carb" bases so I welded the secondarys shut so I can use the stock sheet metal.
It will use the original wagon 102 case that has been clearanced from the longer throw crank of the 140. I will be using a Otto20 cam, .030 forged pistons and modified 140 heads and fuel injection system.
I have already machined the heads with deep valve seats, bronze valve guides, crower springs and titanium retainers. The CR is 9.5:1 with a .042 head gasket and the step milled out. I am running 2 "carb" bases so I welded the secondarys shut so I can use the stock sheet metal.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
I also opened up the remaining opening to 1.5" because that will be the size of the "carb" throttle body plate. Since the motor in the car is already a Ted Brown FI system, I am making my own replacement bases that will flow more air. I am basing these mods on the Yenko carburetor mods. In a discussion with Bob Coffin he mentioned that Yenko used the throttle plates from the turbo carbs and sleeved the throat.
Since I do not have to worry about the venturi, and fuel passage flow it was a relatively easy mod.
As you can see a lot of the carb was removed!
Then the sleeves were jb welded in along with filling the area of the cluster that I will eventually smoot and belvel to help airflow. I then bored it out to exactly 1.500". I had to modify the throttle plate rod to fit the larger plate, as you can see quite a difference. The plate fits great and seals well. I still have to drill out the passages for the vacuum tubes in the base and do a few other small mods but I will post when I get to them.
Since I do not have to worry about the venturi, and fuel passage flow it was a relatively easy mod.
As you can see a lot of the carb was removed!
Then the sleeves were jb welded in along with filling the area of the cluster that I will eventually smoot and belvel to help airflow. I then bored it out to exactly 1.500". I had to modify the throttle plate rod to fit the larger plate, as you can see quite a difference. The plate fits great and seals well. I still have to drill out the passages for the vacuum tubes in the base and do a few other small mods but I will post when I get to them.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Nice work!
Scott
1960 Monza Coupe
1965 Evening Orchid Corsa Turbo (project)
1961 Rampside (project)
1964 Spyder coupe (patina car, running)
1964 faux Spyder (project/parts car)
1964 Monza (parts car)
1963 Monza (parts car)
1960 Monza Coupe
1965 Evening Orchid Corsa Turbo (project)
1961 Rampside (project)
1964 Spyder coupe (patina car, running)
1964 faux Spyder (project/parts car)
1964 Monza (parts car)
1963 Monza (parts car)
- caraholic4life
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:19 pm
- Location: Westminster, Maryland
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Personally I like the "Stealth" 140 Heads idea a whole lot as they will obviously (to me anyway) breathe much better than other versions with the smaller valves. Great Work.
1962 95 FC Van
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe
1965 Monza Coupe
1965 Monza Convertible
Mid Engine enthusiast &
Prior Kelmark Owner
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe
1965 Monza Coupe
1965 Monza Convertible
Mid Engine enthusiast &
Prior Kelmark Owner
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
I see the chambers have the Singh Grooves. Did they come with the heads, or did you add them? I've read a lot about them but it is still hard to decide on their effectiveness. Maybe they work in some situations and not others. A moot point for me on the 80HP heads (#566) I have with a .095 quench pad - less the gasket.
'61 Lakewood in a coma for 50 years - now has a pulse
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Really nice work!! It looks like you have a very well equipped shop Ken
1965 Corvair Corsa coupe
Rochester, NY USA
Rochester, NY USA
- flat6_musik
- Posts: 2659
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:03 am
- Location: Hesperia, CA
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Being a newby here, many of you guys amaze me.
"Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life."
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Are you running a IAC ?
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Right now it has an idle control solenoid in the Brown fuel injection.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
I have been using the Singh Groove in all of my engine builds. I do not have an issue with detonation and I run 90 octane (maybe could run less but 90 is ethanol free). In reading and also conversation with Ken Hand, they Groove is effective if the quench area is closer .035-.045, not particularly above that.Wittsend wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:11 pm I see the chambers have the Singh Grooves. Did they come with the heads, or did you add them? I've read a lot about them but it is still hard to decide on their effectiveness. Maybe they work in some situations and not others. A moot point for me on the 80HP heads (#566) I have with a .095 quench pad - less the gasket.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
With fuel injection using a higher octane ethanol blended gasoline should not be an issue. I just read about a company making vapor gasoline canisters for old cars "to keep the gasoline smell out of your garage", but it should also keep moisture out of the gasoline tank. Just a thought.toms73novass wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:57 am
I have been using the Singh Groove in all of my engine builds. I do not have an issue with detonation and I run 90 octane (maybe could run less but 90 is ethanol free). In reading and also conversation with Ken Hand, they Groove is effective if the quench area is closer .035-.045, not particularly above that.
Tom -- Are you going to upgrade the transaxle to a 64 differential and transmission to handle the extra power?
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
I have already rebuilt the original 4 speed and diff and ran it last year in the car. I am deciding if I should use a LM clutch and pressure plate.....
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Today I cleaned the case for the 10x time .
The engine was a mouse house and their urine ate away most of the engine. I was able to save the case but that was about it! You can see what it did to the case, fortunately all the sealing surfaces were ok. Here are 4 of the studs from the case that fortunately I was able to remove with using heat and Kroil. I have taken apart several engines and save the good studs. I used these as replacements and they tightened down nicely, also added loctite to make sure no oil leaks. I then tested each stud at 30 ft/lbs just to make sure there were no surprises at final assembly.
Lastly I put in both gallery plugs. Don't want to forget those!
The engine was a mouse house and their urine ate away most of the engine. I was able to save the case but that was about it! You can see what it did to the case, fortunately all the sealing surfaces were ok. Here are 4 of the studs from the case that fortunately I was able to remove with using heat and Kroil. I have taken apart several engines and save the good studs. I used these as replacements and they tightened down nicely, also added loctite to make sure no oil leaks. I then tested each stud at 30 ft/lbs just to make sure there were no surprises at final assembly.
Lastly I put in both gallery plugs. Don't want to forget those!
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
- toms73novass
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
- Location: Grand Island NY
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
Also, If anyone is interested. Here is the build thread on the "other" site.
https://corvaircenter.com/forum/viewtop ... wild+wagon
https://corvaircenter.com/forum/viewtop ... wild+wagon
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon
As you probably know -- the 64 and newer long stroke engines have a different crank gear to move the "new stepped flywheel" back. That and a different bellhousing and pressure plate, and throw out bearing, fixed the early problem of the clutch lousing clamping pressure at higher RPM due to centrifugal force. Some have figured out how to mix and match to use the latter pressure plate with earlier parts, BUT it sometimes goes badly and the next owner ends up with a franken clutch setup that is difficult to repair if needed. Since you have a rebuilt transaxle I understand not wanting to upgrade. That said the 64 rear suspension upgrade does wonders for a wagon's handling. Also our club transmission guru says the 64/65 transmission was the best of the early design. Great to shift and durable. The second generation "Saginaw" is a tough transmission, but the shift quality is not as good as the 64/65 transmission -- just mytoms73novass wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:26 pmI have already rebuilt the original 4 speed and diff and ran it last year in the car. I am deciding if I should use a LM clutch and pressure plate.....