ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP CONVERSION IDEAS & SUGGESTIONS

[vairmech]

Al, go look at the picture again. I am not relying on the ty-wrap to keep the pump out of harm's way, I have use the line routing to hold the pump in place. The ty-wraps are just for better positioning. I agree with relying on ty-wraps for anything structural but they do very well out of the direct UV light of the sun. I have had to cut 10 year old ty-wraps in the engine compartment! And most ty-wraps now days are UV stabilized anyway, only the real cheap ones are not. I get mine from a US supplier.

[Nashfan]

Heres a picture of the in tank fuel pump and new style fuel level sensor that I used for my EFI conversion. The fuel pump and fuel level sensor are standard GM parts, the fuel pump maxes out at 90 psi when dead headed (pump on, outlet plugged). I have my fuel pressure set at 45psi.
Contact Ray Sedman at American Pi to get a new Corvair fuel tank modified like this.

kevins fuel tank.jpg (46.43 KiB) Viewed 445 times

[Lane66Monza]

Ok,I I see that now. But rubber hoses and a ty-rap securing a vibrating unit? Not the way I would do it. But your installation and expertise in that type of installation is all that .matters.

[Lane66Monza]

Ken:

I would address the pump controller and wiring statements you have made.

PUMP CONTROL
The fuel pump controller 12003 only needs a tach signal to get the pump running. Lose it and pump stops. Really no safety features with the controller, compared to having an impact switch and a low pressure switch PS64 controlling the pump. These 2 items will shut down the pump in case of an accident or with loss of oil pressure (if you don't see the red light). In either installation, the engine will run until the carb bowls are empty, unless driver shuts off the key.

Fuel Pump Controller 12003
This universal electric fuel pump controller is designed for cars and trucks being upgraded from a mechanical fuel pump to an electric inline or in-tank fuel pump.

Pump only runs if there is a tach signal from the ignition (Just connect to the negative side of the ignition if you don’t have a factory tach)
Primes the pump for three seconds at initial key-on.
Includes a 7.5 amp circuit breaker.
Includes an internal relay.
Includes 15 feet of 16 gauge wire to energize the fuel pump.

Wiring Comparision
Fuel Controller install, as I see it, needs the following: Green tach wire to engine, one purple wire to battery or switched 12v on fuse box, red wire also on switched 12v on fuse box, black wire to ground, another purple wire to pump. So I count 2 or 3 wire entering tunnel with 1 or 2 going to engine compartment. Looks likes a relay would be needed to control the pump wire instead of pulling 12 volts, 7 amps off old fuse box, so run purple to rear, in my opinion. Rest of wiring is located in dash area.

Controller 12003 wiring.jpg (32.81 KiB) Viewed 410 times

My fuel pump control circuit needs one 18 gauge wire and one 14 gauge wire from dash area to engine compartment, four 18 gauge wires different lengths in engine compartment to low oil pressure switch, relay, indicator light and impact switch, one 14 gauge wire from dash area to pump in bulkhead behind gas tank. one 14 gauge wire from fuse box to prime switch, one 18 gauge wire from prime switch to 1 amp fuse and one 14 gauge ground wire for the pump. It may seem like a lot of wires, but only 2 in the tunnel and one enters & leaves at front of tunnel. The low oil pressure switch is the ground for the relay circuit. Dash switch terminals are used to jump power to where needed. But this installation will provide pump shut-off in a case of accident or loss of oil pressure. If you lose ignition, engine has stopped. So a running pump loses the oil pressure signal anyways and pump stops.

Today, I am going to help a friend install his electric fuel pump control system in his 65 Corsa. He has spent 3 years off and on determining how he was going to control the pump. He looked at all my old fuel pump control schematics. I explained the benefits of relay control, impact switch and the low oil pressure switch. He also read the literature on the fuel controller. He decided a couple months ago to go with my safety feature electrical circuit. Together, we should have it done in a few hours.

[Lane66Monza]

I forgot that with the fuel pump controller there is only a 3 second priming feature. Great for starting engine with full fuel lines. If you need to run the pump any longer you have to turn the ignition key off and turn it back on. I guess you could add a dedicated fuel priming switch and wiring to cover that possibility, but that adds more wiring to the basic install.

Have I ever used my prime switch for a situation. Yes, whn the relay failed once in past 5 years. It got me home from town. About 28 mike trip. I had a relay with me but fixing it at home was a wiser decision.

[Dennis66]

Adding this for others who may be doing a piecework conversion. I noticed many pictures with a pump inlet filter that threads into the 1/8 NPT fitting on the pump. I' used these many years ago, but didn't remember the part number and the applications were on specialized equipment. After a few fruitless internet searches, I hit the WIX filter site and found a number. It is WIX 33046, NAPA 3046, and I purchased Duralast FF2202DL. Hope this information helps someone else. Dennis

[Frank DuVal]

PUMP CONTROL
The fuel pump controller 12003 only needs a tach signal to get the pump running. Lose it and pump stops. Really no safety features with the controller, compared to having an impact switch and a low pressure switch PS64 controlling the pump. These 2 items will shut down the pump in case of an accident or with loss of oil pressure (if you don't see the red light). In either installation, the engine will run until the carb bowls are empty, unless driver shuts off the key.

I shall address this.

In a mechanical fuel pump Corvair, it will still pump fuel into the engine as long as the engine is running. Crash into a brick wall, if the engine keeps running while you are unconscious, the fuel pump keeps pumping. I see no big Ralph Nader call to alarm that millions of cars are still on the road with this hazard! So I consider it a non-issue. Lose tack signal, stop pumping, works like the original system.

Note on a carbureted engine when the vehicle lands on its side, upside down, on its nose up or down, the engine stops running. On a fuel injected engine (include diesels), there is no float bowl, so the engine keeps running until it locks up, because the oil pump is no longer sucking from the sump. I saw this happen to a Ford mini van laying on its side at the intersection of my road with the highway. Guess what didn't happen? The inertia switch did not shut off the pump! The driver crawled out of the driver's window (no others on board) leaving the ignition switch on, I guess they were thinking more of personal safety than engine issues. The engine ran, then smoked, then quit with an abrupt stop.

OK, the oil pressure switch does fix the oil pump not sucking problem, but that's an improvement over stock, not a safety issue. OK, safety of metal parts....

Hmm, since the oil lamp wire is in the dash... and a relay can be used to make this control a fuel pump circuit, maybe incorporating this oil shutdown feature is easier than wiring to a big oil pressure switch. Need to draw the circuit.

YES! A prime switch is a great addition.

[Lane66Monza]

Good response, Frank.

I have to assume the manufacturers wasted a lot of money on inertia switches and wiring for a long time adding something that was not needed or government mandated. But now they have added it to the fuel pump assembly on newer cars. Crazy manufacturers don't know how to remove useless items from a vehicle like automatic transmissions, multispeed wipers, electric windows and door locks. Those are not really needed either. We could go naming a lot of items on new cars that are unneeded, but I do like the inertia switch that they have kept and moved to the fuel pump. It is somewhat more reliable than the fuel pumps themselves.

[gbullman]

I went the inertial switch route because I felt it was adequate and simpler to install. I installed my Clark’s pump up front behind the body support and piped it up with brass / bronze fittings from the local plumbing store. I also put in a hidden kill switch for those times I power the car in the ACC position without the engine running (I’ve been reluctant to tie into the car’s wiring harness for stuff like this, hence the separate switch). This September will be 3 years with no issues.

I’m a little tempted to try Clark’s mechanical pump once it is available. Any downside to leaving the electric pump in place and just not run it except for priming and mechanical pump failure?

[2LZ]

My pump setup is on its way from Clark's (basic kit, fuel pump plate, plus install kit). Obviously, pumps would rather push than pull, but I'm looking for the EASIEST spot to install it, like in the engine compartment. I saw a vid of a guy who installed one in the incoming line and it worked fine for his application. Also, our country roads here completely suck. I'd rather not have it underneath the car, if possible. Anyone mounted the e-pump assy in the engine compartment on the incoming line on the driver side???

[Frank DuVal]

Rubber fuel line in the engine compartment is not good on a Corvair due to high temperature when the engine is shut off after a long run. It is #1 reason for Corvair owners to cry hack when they see rubber fuel line on the engine.

Besides steel lines bent well look great.

[2LZ]

Rubber fuel line in the engine compartment is not good on a Corvair due to high temperature when the engine is shut off after a long run. It is #1 reason for Corvair owners to cry hack when they see rubber fuel line on the engine.

Besides steel lines bent well look great.

Thanks for the heads-up, Frank!
Being a Corvair Greenhorn, I can use all the etiquette lessons I can get. No rubber lines in the engine compartment. Check.

[Lane66Monza]

Or plastic fuel filters in engine compartment either. Use steel fuel filter and locate it in area behind the left rear tire before fuel line enters the engine compartment. Electric pumpa also need a filter before the pump. It is a small one that threads into the pump.

I have a short rubber hose connecting a 90 degree tube with a fitting that threads into the filter. I cut and bent my main fuel line to come out the side of the tunnel using a 1 inch grommet to support it. I have the tool to rebead the line and then a short rubber hose from pump to the main fual line makes it a easy installation and for replacements in future. I add a connector on the power and ground wires (pump and car). So when a failed pump occurs, I can quickly swap out a ready to install spare having the connector mating half. Waterproof connectors are used. 2 failures in 5 years of the $15 ebay pumps, but I have them changed out in about 30 minutes. (1 more pump now as a spare and I will be done with cheap pumps.) I carry the spare pump, tools, jack stand with its board and a Lisle hose crimp clamp to stop the flow of fuel when I pull pump off.

[2LZ]

Or plastic fuel filters in engine compartment either. Use steel fuel filter and locate it in area behind the left rear tire before fuel line enters the engine compartment. Electric pump also need a filter before the pump. It is a small one that threads into the pump.

I have a short rubber hose connecting a 90 degree tube with a fitting that threads into the filter. I cut and bent my main fuel line to come out the side of the tunnel using a 1 inch grommet to support it. I have the tool to rebead the line and then a short rubber hose from pump to the main fual line makes it a easy installation and for replacements in future. I add a connector on the power and ground wires (pump and car). So when a failed pump occurs, I can quickly swap out a ready to install spare having the connector mating half. Waterproof connectors are used. 2 failures in 5 years of the $15 ebay pumps, but I have them changed out in about 30 minutes. (1 more pump now as a spare and I will be done with cheap pumps.) I carry the spare pump, tools, jack stand with its board and a Lisle hose crimp clamp to stop the flow of fuel when I pull pump off.

I like the spare pump idea. I may get one of the EBay pumps to keep on hand. The Clark's kit comes with the filter so I'm covered there. I guess it will be time to get out the flare tool for some custom metal line work.
If you would be so kind, what wire did you tap the pump power wire into? A pic of the connectors would be great.

[Lane66Monza]

Here is my schematic of how I wired in my fuel pump and its controls again. The relay power indicator and inertia switch are located on the wall next to the engine lid's left hinge. Low oil pressure switch is mounted to replace the original switch with a 45 degree adapter. 3 position prime switch is located under dash above park brake handle, so can I operate switch and leave other hand free to operate key. I had to make a new bracket to hold the prime switch, along with the park brake handle on light and the brake system loss of pressure light. If you need a photo of that install, let me know.

I also have another hidden switch that cuts power to the entire pump circuit located under dash, where it can't be found easily. I don't show that one on the schematic. Personal option you have to figure out and locate. Don't make it easy like the prime switch.

Regarding water proof connectors, here are 2 options. The use of the kit takes some learning of how to do them right, but it eliminates extra splices. Remember you have to use same gauge wire for the ground as the power. 14 gauge minimum. I was able to make the kit components work on the 14 gauge wires.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176253453664?_ ... MSQEZR4AE7

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... s&_sacat=0

[Dennis66]

Good response, Frank.

I have to assume the manufacturers wasted a lot of money on inertia switches and wiring for a long time adding something that was not needed or government mandated.

I have to disagree with this. When the switch was made to electric fuel pumps that would keep pumping fuel whether the engine was running or not, SAFETY was the consideration for a shut down system (to my knowledge, the Chevy Vega was one of the first, if not he actual first. When it comes to EFI and pressures in the area of 30-40 PSI, a fuel leak becomes a flamethrower, not just a fire.
As far as automatic transmissions, power windows etc, Those are options driven by consumer desire and not wasted mney or government mandates. I will agree that all the computer nonsense like micro processers on power windows are completely unnecessary. Dennis