Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

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azdave
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Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:57 am

I always have several projects going at once and this fall is no exception. Since I had never owned a big V8 Vair I picked up a couple of Toro Corvairs over the last few years (I've had my share of Crown and Kelmark kits thank you). Both cars needed work (don't they all) and up until recently I only repairedwhat they needed to get by. Now I am at the point where I will make one a decent daily runner and the other will become my "keeper" that will get the most attention (and take the longest to complete). The daily runner will be sold once the more customized V8 is completed.

The "Cliff Notes" version of this thread is that I'm swapping the drive systems in these two cars. Read further if you want to know why (or just enjoy the photos).

Anyway, this won't be a step-by-step thread but simply a place to show recent updates and photos in case anyone else is interested in seeing my progress or might be able to use the pics and info for reference or inspiration.

Basically, I have both a 65 and 66 with the early Toronado drive systems. Both cars were drivable when I got them but each had their own issues that put a serious damper on enjoying them as much as I would like. The 65 (maroon) looks the worst cosmetically but has only slight rust here or there and has never been wrecked. The 66 (white) looks great but I can see where there was some collision repair and the installation of the V8 was not as clean as the 65. I have decided that the maroon 65 will be the keeper but the white 66 will get fixed up first so I'll have a fun car to drive while I continue work on the 65.

First problem is that the 425 engine in the white car needs repairs to correct an amatuer rebuild job. It has multiple cracked rings and yet more rings were found installed in the wrong grooves. It had serious cylinder compression variances and excess leak-down issues. It also had a poorly designed rear motor support that really couldn't handle the shaking from the motor running with a bad cylinder. In fact, one of the transmission mount ears was broken when I bought it and I'm guessing that "V-7" engine was the likely cause. The tranny shifts good enough and it has the rare switch-pitch torque converter that I want to put in the other chassis. So the quick score on the white 66 is a bad motor, a bad rear engine mount and a good tranny that is destined for my other car after the broken case is fixed. I had already fixed the major cooling issues with the 66 over the summer so this car needs a new motor, new tranny and a new rear motor support system and I'm basically back to having a nice looking Toro V8 to drive while I get busy on the other V8.

The maroon 65 V8 has a great running 455 engine but the tranny needs rebuilt. It has a non-switch pitch torque converter and it has begun to slip occasionally so after a tranny rebuild this whole power plant will be put into the white 66. The 425 from the white 66 will get rebuilt as a bored-over 455 and find a new home in the maroon 65.

Here are a few pics from the last month as I begin the process.
Attachments
P9290012.JPG
P9290028.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:00 am

65 power system comes out.

Lift car, lower car until power system rests safely on wheeled cart, disconnect power plant, raise car off of power plant, roll power plant out of the way, lower car and roll outside.
Attachments
PA090010.JPG
PA090017.JPG
PA090013.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:02 am

A few tranny shots...
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PA100031.JPG
PA100035.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Scott Howey » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:41 am

Very cool. I think I may want to do one of these later on down the road.
Scott

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:47 am

Scott Howey wrote:Very cool. I think I may want to do one of these later on down the road.
At some point in the near future I'll be selling the front and rear sub-frames, mounts, supports, special half-shafts, etc. from another Toro conversion I parted out.

I'll keep you in mind as a possible buyer. I thought about taking all the parts to the Toss but it looks like I won't have the room as I'm probably not taking the van.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:22 am

Last night I dove into the tranny issues on the non-switch pitch TH425. Wish me luck. I hope I don't get in over my head.

So far all I have found is a lot of clutch dust sludge. No metal shavings (aluminum or steel) found anywhere so that is a good sign that only the clutch packs are faulty.
Attachments
PA100032.JPG
PA110107.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by 65Ragtop » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:15 pm

This will be one sweet car when you are done. :cool:
Mike S.
65 Corsa 140 Ragtop
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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:29 pm

I got the tranny down to the bare case last night and pressure washed it really good. It's suqeaky clean and looks in great shape. Not a single stripped thread or damaged gasket surface.
All of the sub-assemblies came out easily so the next step is to await delivery of the rebuild parts and then begin re-assembling by rebuilding each sub-assembly as needed with new parts. So far the 1967 Oldsmobile Service manual has been dead-on accurate.
Attachments
PA120007.JPG
This shot shows the internals just before removing the center section support.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Greybeard » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:00 pm

Dave

I've been surfing the site and saw the great detail job you've done on you "daily" driver. I'll ship mine down if you'd like to go after it.

I've done a bit of looking for parts through GMC Motorhome sites, which share our drive train. There are some parts that you won't find anywhere else. Gears and chains combo to give from 3.07 through 3.70 gearing. An aluminum intake that is an liteweight version of the stocker, and therefore doesn't raise the carb any higher than the stocker.
Of particular interest to me was a set of Thorley headers that appear that they'd fit our cars. Available chrome or ceramic

Mike
Last edited by Greybeard on Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'66 Corsa, 455 Olds
http://greybeard.shutterfly.com/
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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:17 am

Greybeard wrote: I've done a bit of looking for parts through GMC Motorhome sites, which share our drive train. There are some parts that you won't find anywhere else. Gears and chains combo to give from 3.07 through 3.70 gearing. An aluminum intake that is an liteweight version of the stocker, and therefore doesn't raise the carb any higher than the stocker.
Of particular interest to me was a set of Thorley headers that appear that they'd fit our cars. Available chrome or ceramic.
I'm always interested in any info on these power packages. I have seen a few GMC motorhome sites but did not see the aluminum low-profile intakes. Where?

I did see the tranny drive chain/gear combos to mod the final ratio but I think between the 2 diffs choices I have now that I'll be okay. This will not be a freeway cruise machine but it's nice to know that option is there for later.

I saw a set of headers recently that were hand made by a Olds BB racer and could maybe work but until I have the engine back in the car I can't really judge the fitment. He sold those but said he would make another set if required. When the time comes I'll probably buy a set and take the risk that I can make them work. If not they go on ebay to recoup some money and try the next set. I have access to some free stainless steel mufflers removed from some new V8 Mustangs but I also really like the big single dual inlet/outlet muffler standing up in the rear engine compartment.

The white 66 is getting my attention right now and that is the V8 I intend to sell so I'll only use it to test all my tricks for what is going into the 65 chassis later next year. The 455 engine for the 66 just needs a couple of gaskets and a clean up. The tranny going in that one will NOT be a switch-pitch. That is the one I am currently rebuilding. I just got the repair parts after a long delay when the vendor failed to ship my order for over a week after they said it was already on the way. I'm working from a 1967 Olds factory manual along with an expolded view of the TH425 from an old GM Rarts Requisition Form. So far so good.
Attachments
PA190127.JPG
Guts of the TH425 valvebody
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Greybeard » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:05 am

Dave,

THis is what I found: Intake http://www.bdub.net/grockwell/

http://gmcmotorhome.info/HEADERS.html
The drivers side comes up and over the tranny and chain, passenger down and under. Outlets would be further back than with stock mani's, but they appear to me to work. I saw a set that had been cut and modified with BBC flange and they had me thinking of a BBC for quite awhile. 502/540 anyone?
'66 Corsa, 455 Olds
http://greybeard.shutterfly.com/
Mike

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:28 pm

Thanks for the links.

The lastest update is that the tranny is done. I won't know if it works properly since I can't bench run it but I sure know a lot more about it now than I did two weeks ago. It will be stored until the rear support and suspension repairs are completed in the white 66. I'll be doing some cleaning on the 455 engine that will go in it but the next project is to get the rear suspension pulled and repaired. When I brought it home I noticed the right rear camber could not be adjusted any further but the tire was still leaning noticably inward. I later found a crack in the modified trailing arm that explained the issue. The rear engine support was of poor design and flexed enough under acceleration to break off one of the transmission mounting bosses. I'll be building a new rear support with a little help from a friend who is a certified welder.
Attachments
PA230059.JPG
PA230060.JPG
PA230061.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Greybeard » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:52 pm

Dave

I also had a camber problem with mine. The struts that were furnished with my kit were made of straight tubing with heim joints at each end. The strut attaches to the hub carrier, the bolt sits in a slotted hole. I assume that the slot was how camber was adjusted on the stocker tightening the bolt to hold it where they wanted it. No matter how hard I tightened the bolt it would not hold in place, and hiem joints didn't have enough adjustment to allow to make up for the bolt sliding to the inside of the slot. I went to a bolt and screw vender and got some large (looked like fender washers) with the right size hole for the bolt. Where the carrier has the slot, it is shaped in a U. I ground the outside of the washers to make them square, and fit snug inside the U channel. I made a set with the hole centered, and several sets offsetting the hole. I ended up using the ones that centered the bolt, and made the rest of my adjustment with the hiem joints. I kept some camber in it.
My kit came with airbags for ride height adjustment. I had to run so much air in them to get the thing to even sit level that it would pop them when you hit a bump in the road. After spending months calling spring shops about winding me a set of coils and getting prices in the extreme, I found a link to the "Vair shop" and found that Larry Claypool had had several Toro Corvairs. I contacted him and asked about what he did and found that he'd had custom coils made. He told me that he'd see if they'd still do up a set and CALLED ME BACK. Great guy! He asked if I knew the weight, and spring height when compressed. I had those figures already and it took several weeks for the springs to arrive. They are stout! I had a spring compressor that I'd bought at Harbor Freight come apart while compressing the first one. I borrowed a Snap-on one and did the cranking on them with a heavy horse blanket over the top for protection in case it broke. I'm very happy with the result. Ride height is great.
Larry's web site is http://www.vairshop.com/ if you feel a need for someone with a lot more experience than I. If he asks how you found him, tell him Mike Mantle from Idaho sent ya.
'66 Corsa, 455 Olds
http://greybeard.shutterfly.com/
Mike

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:35 pm

Thanks for the hints on the Toro rear suspension. The maroon 65 has the same suspension as your's but the white 66 with the camber issue is a completely different set up. I think I sent you some pics earlier. I like the suspension in the white 66 and that fact that it could probably be used for other FWD paower plant installs. It just needs a little better execution of that plan.

Once I get into it I'll show how I repaired it. I'm about 99% sure that the maroon 65 will get this same suspension as I love the fact that the engine/tranny/diff package does NOT become an integrated part of the suspension with all of those drawbacks. Just pulling the motor on the maroon 65 was a headache compared to the 66.

Also, I was having trouble lifting parts around from bench to bench so I started looking for a scissor-lift hydraulic table to help out. I scored two Presto lifts this weekend on Craig's List. One works and the other needs some attention. These things will lift 1500# from 9" to 45". Got them both for $115!! They retail for $2000 each. Good heavy duty stuff for sure.
Attachments
-3.JPG
Presto XP36-15 lift table
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:53 pm

Posting in the other Toro Vair thread reminded me I've not updated here recently.

Progress is slow since life gets in the way of hobbies but I am making some progress. After removing the rear suspension on the white 66 I found some serious cracks in the suspension components. After a month of running solutions by my Engineer friends (one who makes a living doing structural anaysis for MD Helecopters) I am convinced that the upgrrades and repairs will be stronger than required and I'm now happy to be back on track installing the suspension. I'll post pics of the repaired and painted suspension parts in a few days.

I've been wheeling the car in and out of my way by mounting a castering wheel to the rear of the car. Within a few weeks it should be back on all 4 wheels and then the engine will be prepped for a re-install.

I sandblasted the engine compartment in some areas to clean up the chassis a little and de-gunk years of grime. I have since painted it all a nice semi-gloss black and it looks so much better.


The other Corvair Toro V8 project is much further away from being worked on but I ran across a deal for it I could not pass up. I got a low-hour 455 jet boat engine. The boat was lost due to an electrical fire but the engine was not harmed. The engine is bored out to 462 cubes and has a full roller cam/lifter system installed. The whole package was built by RPM Engines here in Tempe and the owner showed me all of the paperwork on the engine. Just under $6000 was spent to build it and I got it for $1100. I would have spent that much alone just on pistons and machine work to fix up the bad engine I removed from the white car.

How to move a Corvair with no rear suspension.
Image

Image

Image

Suspension before repairs
Image

Image

Image

Recently scored a nice motor for the other V8 project.Image
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:37 am

A few project updates. Slow but sure.

Rear suspension repair and reinforcement completed.
Rear suspension re-installed and wheels rough aligned.
Engine cleaned and re-sealed.
Differential cleaned and re-sealed.
UPP ( Unitized Power Package) assembled.
Built temporary stand to correctly locate engine on garage floor in prep for lifting chassis up and over power package.

If all goes well I'll be able to lower the chassis over the power package and then by rolling the car rearward it should allow the front central motor mount to locate correctly to the frame.
After that I'll have to build an all new rear mount system since the original mount was poorly designed and when it flexed it broke one of the ears off of the tranmission housing.
Attachments
P3060004.JPG
P3200001.JPG
P3200006.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

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