First start in 32 years.

[RossettiJ]

I’m trying to be careful and deliberate about starting my Corvair (1965 110 hp) which hasn’t been run since 1992.

Today I pulled the plugs and squirt a little oil in each cylinder. I turned the engine over with a 3/4 wrench.

I pulled the top tin off the engine and looked underneath for rodent debris. There wasn’t any so I vacuumed anyway, and put it back together.

I found top dead center on the compression stroke on #1 and verified the (new) distributor was installed correctly. Then I made sure the spark wires followed the firing order shown on the tin.

The spark plugs on the right side were all rusty. The left side were not. All plugs were black with soot. Must have been running rich. #6 was the cleanest of all. I’ll share a picture below.

The carburetor butterflies will not open. I’m not sure why. I’m buying carburetor cleaner and carb kits.

My questions are, what are the spark plugs telling me?
And, are the carbs just varnished shut with old gas?

I’ve disconnected the fuel line at the rubber hose in the rear. I will gravity feed fresh gas from a bucket connected to a rubber hose.

I’m open to suggestions and I take advice.

[Dennis66]

While you have the carbs off, put plenty of penetrating oil around the butterflies and shafts. Whatever your favorite is, Blaster, WD-40, Kroil. My favorite is a mix of 50-50 ATF and lacquer thinner or even brake cleaner. It gets right in there. You might consider getting the "ethanol resistant accelerator cups while doing the carbs. I got mine from California Corvairs (Clark's doesn't seem to carry them). From my experience, they don't work well with gravity feed. I've been running mine off a 2 quart tank in the rear through a dummy mechanical fuel pump and to the carbs. I hope to finally get my electric pump installed this weekend. Your fuel pump is probably shot. Currently, there are no trustworthy mechanical fuel pumps out there. Everything is either chinese, old stock, or inferior quality with a very high failure rate (read possible fire or oil contamination from a leaky diaphragm. Clark's is in the testing stages of a repro, but it hasn't been released yet.
When you're ready to start, your going to want to pull that distributor back out, gat a long, straight blade screwdriver (something comparable to your distributor shaft (or rig up and use your old distributor if you still have it), cut the handle off, chuck the shank in a drill, and either way, you'll want to spin up the oil pump until the oil light goes off (key on, engine off) This will prima your system. Dennis (down in St Pete).

[RossettiJ]

Wow! Dennis, that was helpful.

I called Clark’s earlier this week and asked them if their carburetor kits were alcohol resistant. The woman on the phone said, “We sell them every day, they must be fine.” I wasn’t impressed with her answer. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.

When I was playing with old Pontiacs, the rule of thumb was the black rubber components would get ruined by ethanol. The good stuff was the blue rubber.

What do you think of those plugs? Should I change to AC 44F ?

[Dennis66]

I hadn't looked at the plugs until now. AC 44fs would probably be an improvement, however I prefer NGKs. There is a thread on here somewhere mentioning the correct NGK plug. Mine currently has the AC plugs, but a brand new set came with the car and I've only put a couple of miles on it driving around the block a couple of times (hopefully that will change soon).
While our Corvairs are old school, years ago in an emissions class, we learned that Autolite was designed for Fords, and that manufacturer recommended plugs were recommended for good reason - but that was all for computer EFI cars, still, Autolite would not be my choice.
Regarding Clark's, I've always found their staff very helpful, maybe you got someone on a bad day. Dennis

[RossettiJ]

I plan to try the ATF/laquer thinner solvent on the carbs. I ordered two carb kits and a Petronix igniter from California Corvairs.

The Clark’s lady was nice enough. I just didn’t have any faith in her answer.

[jimbrandberg]

I've been using NGK BR6HS (3922) in most engines.
The red Pertronix 2 doesn't work so well in PG engines sometimes.
You need to pay attention to Ohms with the resistor wire and coil with Pertronix.
I don't know if I'd put much stock in spark plug color from before, just running it with the chokes not open yet may color them black. Around here I generally start with 51 main jets but also have regard for how or why someone had something different in there.
The blue viton accelerator pump cups like John Sweet sells probably hold up better than the black ones but you cn always switch later.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

[RexJohnson]

It would be a good idea to make sure that the fins in the head are open. Not just from debri which it sounds like you have done but also make sure that there is no casting material blocking the passages. I like to put a light on the bottom side and then use a keyhole saw to clean them up.

[bbodie52]

The spark plugs on the right side were all rusty. The left side were not. All plugs were black with soot. Must have been running rich. #6 was the cleanest of all. I’ll share a picture below.

The carburetor butterflies will not open. I’m not sure why. I’m buying carburetor cleaner and carb kits.

My questions are, what are the spark plugs telling me?

The rust on the outside of the spark plugs appears to be generally insignificant. Apparently the right side of the engine was exposed to moisture that resulted in a surface rust buildup. Or possibly a thin oil coating on the outside of the left spark plugs prevented rust. In any case, the tips of each spark plug inside the combustion chambers does not appear to reveal any significant problem.

Perhaps there is some corrosion or rust buildup on the steel throttle shafts with deposit buildup between the shaft and the aluminum throttle bodies causing them to stick. Possibly some sort of penetrative lubricant like WD-40 would help to free things up? In any case, I would not recommend removing the screws that secure the throttle or choke butterflies to the shafts unless you have a good reason. The exposed threads were staked, or "peened" at the factory to prevent them from unscrewing or loosening with vibration, to prevent a screw from falling into the intake manifold. If they have to be removed, the exposed threads can be ground off and replacement screws are listed in the Clark's Corvair Parts catalog. (Page 56, Item 36, P/N: C1835).

if needed...

Carb Throttle Shafts
Fit all Rochester H & HV Corvair carburetors. You may be surprised just how worn your shaft is. These are chrome plated brass like the originals. Easy installation, includes all screws shown. Sold each (for 1 carb.). Chrome Plated Brass.

Part number C7859: CARB THROTTLE SHAFT-EA

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Page(s): 58
Price:
1 - 2 $ 13.20

I ordered two carb kits and a Petronix igniter from California Corvairs.

Since you have a Powerglide automatic transmission-based Corvair, a Pertronix Ignitor II should be avoided. The basic Pertronix Ignitor should be OK. (The Pertronix Ignitor II has s problem with properly sensing ignition pulses from the distributor at very slow idle speeds. This is usually noted in Corvairs with an automatic transmission, where the engine,, loaded by the torque converter with the engine in DRIVE, or REVERSE, will slow its idle speed to the point where ignition pulses may be misread by the electronic module used in the Pertronix Ignitor II. This can cause the engine to stall when idling in DRIVE in a stopped vehicle. This problem does not occur with the Pertronix Ignitor.

The Pertronix Ignitor or Ignitor II modules were designed to run on full 12-14 VDC vehicle power. The voltage that is reduced by the ballast resistor wire is too low. It is at or slightly below the minimum threshold that the Pertronix modules can tolerate. in some cases the Pertronix Ignitor or Ignitor ii may work, and in some cases it may begin to malfunction if the voltage drops so low that the electronic module may malfunction.

The solution that Pertronix decided to adopt was to recommend elimination of the ballast resistor wire from the vehicle ignition circuit. This would provide a full 12-14 VDC power to the Ignitor or Ignitor II when tapping its power from the ignition coil positive terminal.






To keep the ignition coil internal heat down, Pertronix offers two solutions...

1. Power everything without an external ballast resistor, using full 12-14 VDC power. To do this with a six cylinder engine, they recommend switching to a 3.0 ohm coil, which is considered to be optimum for a four or six-cylinder engine and its associated longer coil primary charging cycles related to a coil supporting fewer engine cylinders. (With an original Delco coil, the total primary coil resistance is 1.42 ohms plus 1.8 ohms from the external ballast resistor... 3.22 ohms!) If your installation eliminates the ballast resistor, the Delco coil would run hot, but switching to a Pertronix Flame-Thrower 3.0 ohm coil would bring the coil resistance back down to a nominal 3.0 ohms — keeping the 3.0 ohm Pertronix internal heat buildup under control, while still providing the external Pertronix Ignitor module with the desired nominal 12-14 VDC power for its electronic module!

2. The other way to handle this, if you retain a Delco 1.42 ohm coil, is to wire things up so that the Pertronix ignitor receives power from a bypassed ballast resistor, while the Delco coil gets its power via the original 1.8 ohm ballast resistor wire. This keeps the total coil primary resistance around 3.0 ohms (1.28 ohms to 1.42 ohms (coil) + 1.8 ohms (ballast resistor wire), while tapping before the ballast resistor wire to supply the higher voltage needed by the Pertronix Ignitor module. This is depicted in the final wiring diagram above.

[/quote]


I prefer the NGK spark plugs. Click on this link for an earlier post regarding NGK spark plugs which you may find to be helpful...

viewtopic.php?p=130470&hilit=ngk+br6hs#p130470

[RossettiJ]

[ The red Pertronix 2 doesn't work so well in PG engines sometimes.
You need to pay attention to Ohms with the resistor wire and coil with Pertronix.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
[/quote]

I bought the Pertronix 1. I used one in a Firebird, before. Good product.

[RossettiJ]

It would be a good idea to make sure that the fins in the head are open. Not just from debri which it sounds like you have done but also make sure that there is no casting material blocking the passages. I like to put a light on the bottom side and then use a keyhole saw to clean them up.

I've got it buttoned back up now, but I will use the keyhole saw trick someday. Makes sense.

[RossettiJ]

Perhaps there is some corrosion or rust buildup on the steel throttle shafts with deposit buildup between the shaft and the aluminum throttle bodies causing them to stick. Possibly some sort of penetrative lubricant like WD-40 would help to free things up? In any case, I would not recommend removing the screws that secure the throttle or choke butterflies to the shafts unless you have a good reason. The exposed threads were staked, or "peened" at the factory to prevent them from unscrewing or loosening with vibration, to prevent a screw from falling into the intake manifold. If they have to be removed, the exposed threads can be ground off and replacement screws are listed in the Clark's Corvair Parts catalog. (Page 56, Item 36, P/N: C1835).

I ruined a Quadrajet once by removing the throttle plates from the throttle shaft. Forever vacuum leaks after that. My throttle shaft bushings didn't benefit me at all. In this case, the Corvair butterflies appear to be stuck to the throttle bore with varnish. I'm going to try PB Blaster, brake cleaner, or I'm kind of intrigued with Dennis66's idea of using 50/50 laquer thinner and ATF. That sounds just crazy enough to work!

[RossettiJ]

The solution that Pertronix decided to adopt was to recommend elimination of the ballast resistor wire from the vehicle ignition circuit. This would provide a full 12-14 VDC power to the Ignitor or Ignitor II when tapping its power from the ignition coil positive terminal.






To keep the ignition coil internal heat down, Pertronix offers two solutions...

1. Power everything without an external ballast resistor, using full 12-14 VDC power. To do this with a six cylinder engine, they recommend switching to a 3.0 ohm coil, which is considered to be optimum for a four or six-cylinder engine and its associated longer coil primary charging cycles related to a coil supporting fewer engine cylinders. (With an original Delco coil, the total primary coil resistance is 1.42 ohms plus 1.8 ohms from the external ballast resistor... 3.22 ohms!) If your installation eliminates the ballast resistor, the Delco coil would run hot, but switching to a Pertronix Flame-Thrower 3.0 ohm coil would bring the coil resistance back down to a nominal 3.0 ohms — keeping the 3.0 ohm Pertronix internal heat buildup under control, while still providing the external Pertronix Ignitor module with the desired nominal 12-14 VDC power for its electronic module!

2. The other way to handle this, if you retain a Delco 1.42 ohm coil, is to wire things up so that the Pertronix ignitor receives power from a bypassed ballast resistor, while the Delco coil gets its power via the original 1.8 ohm ballast resistor wire. This keeps the total coil primary resistance around 3.0 ohms (1.28 ohms to 1.42 ohms (coil) + 1.8 ohms (ballast resistor wire), while tapping before the ballast resistor wire to supply the higher voltage needed by the Pertronix Ignitor module. This is depicted in the final wiring diagram above.

[/quote]


I prefer the NGK spark plugs. Click on this link for an earlier post regarding NGK spark plugs which you may find to be helpful...

viewtopic.php?p=130470&hilit=ngk+br6hs#p130470



[/quote]

Great references for the Ignitor and the spark plugs. Thank you.

[Richard]

>>I’ve disconnected the fuel line at the rubber hose in the rear. <<

That's the FRONT of the engine. The cylinders are numbered from the rear #1, to the front #6.
When viewed from the REAR of the engine, the crankshaft turns counter-clockwise, CCW. The flywheel/ torque converter is on the front of the engine.
For priming the engine oil system, the distributor turns CW.

You may have already known all that, but I wasn't sure you meant rubber hose in rear of car or rear of engine.

[RexJohnson]

Alittle bit of heat from a propane torch might help things also. Assuming that the bowls are free of fuel.

[Project65]

A suggestion that I’ll offer is pulling the distributor and turning the oil pump prior to “starting”. My car sat on the woods for 25 years. I dumped the Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders, and the engine was almost seized up. The MM oil worked just fine and after soaking overnight, it eventually freed up.

The oil pump deal involves taking a decently long flat head screwdriver and cutting it off at the handle. Then chucking it up in a drill. Then inserting it down in the distributor hole to the oil pump and running it around 200-300 rpm to pump the oil. While pumping the oil, turn the engine over by hand with a wrench on the Harmonic balencer. Do this for several minutes. This will lube all of the essential areas within the engine prior to actually starting the engine.

It might smoke a bit with some blow-by, (and burning out that cylinder lube) but if you’re able to let it run a while, this might clear up.

The key thing is no knocking.

[American Mel]

One thing I either missed, or no one mentioned is that after sitting this long, there is an extremely high chance that your lifters will need to pump up.
While this is happening, you will experience a LOT of engine/valve-train clatter.
Do not mistake this for "Knocking", and shut it down.
It can sometimes take 20 to even 30 minutes of idling before the lifters all quiet down.