1966 Glenn Pray Cord

[Gmauk]

Hello,

Like samsonized, I have recently come into possession of a 1966 Glenn Pray Cord with the 1965 turbo charged engine. The engine has not had the greatest maintenance in the last 30+ years. After overheating in a local cruise night, I pulled the turbo/carb assembly today only to find that the compressor/turbine would not turn. I have disassembled and cleaned everything, currently deciding what I should order from Clark’s.

I am 60 years old and have lived on the central coast of California for the past 30 years. The Cord I have was my father’s who purchased it new in 1966. I would consider my mechanical aptitude above average, though I can get overwhelmed at times. While I am an avionics tech by trade, I have been trying to figure out the wiring on this thing with the following results:

[66vairguy]

I'll suggest contacting Steve Goodman at Rear Engine Specialists in Golden, Colorado. I've been recommending Steve to turbo owners for years. Due to high altitude in his area, turbo Corvairs are more common there (compensate for lower density altitude).

My local club rebuilt a turbo engine and it ran awful!! Steve graciously helped out the club (no charge) and the club ended up with a great running turbo Corvair.

See https://www.rearenginespecialists.com/

So you are an avionics technician. I bet you are doing lot of glass panels now. Some of the graphics are finally getting better.

[Gmauk]

Thanks for the input!

I work mostly on corporate and private jets. Yes, the displays are quite impressive! The big two (Honeywell and Collins Aerospace) are producing great stuff at a great (read expensive) price! Garmin is putting out equipment with double the capability at a fraction of the price. We upgraded a 1977 Cessna 340A (the boss's) with a Garmin suite with autopilot and weather radar. This thing has everything a big jet has! The radar is amazing!

[65Monza140]

Hi Gmauk,

Just thinking out loud here so take with one grain of salt for that and another for the fact I have never had or driven a 150/180 HP Corvair, (I'm just a commercial pilot). BUT, you don't live at high altitude, so you won't benefit from a turbo much, and there IS turbo lag you have to wait for after "the stomp" so unless you are doing much cruising with the turbo engaged, it sounds like a 140 HP normally aspirated engine would provide you more driver satisfaction with less problems.

I saw a scaled model Cord with a 110 HP Corvair engine and Subaru transaxle at Oshkosh last month in the EAA Museum on the Pioneer Field hangers. Very cool, but not a high speed machine in my humble opinion. Strong acceleration from low speeds would seem to be more it's game, I'd think.

I would bet currency that you could come out BEING PAID to do the swap as the turbos are rare and sought after. Just look for a swap for a low mileage (Time Between Overhauls) 140HP engine in the local Clubs.

Just my thoughts.

[bbodie52]

The turbo Corvair engine really is designed for short periods of wide-open throttle rapid acceleration. The turbo boost subsides as the driver backs off of the throttle for cruising. Turbo lag does not help much in road racing environments, so normally-aspirated, non-turbo Corvair engines are much-more common in the road racing world. Prolonged periods of continuous turbo boost is asking for trouble (as I discovered in the 1970s while climbing a lengthy uphill highway grade under continuous boost at 70 mph). I failed to hear the detonation sounds from the pinging engine with the wind noise from my open windows masked any sounds of strain. As I neared the top of the Conejo Grade in Ventura County, California, (driving from the Camarillo side), a piston gave out and I melted a hole in one!

[66vairguy]

While the argument for 140HP over a turbo has some merit, the 140's have their fair share of issues. I'm always amazed by those the claim the 110HP is a "weakling" as it performs as well below 2,500RPM as either the 140HP or Turbo. A fine engine with more than adequate power for daily driving. An added bonus is the 110HP is reliable and easy to tune.

While the turbo gets some negative comments, so does the 140HP carburetor setup if you don't know how to sort one out.

Once someone with turbo experience sorts them out they don't require much "fiddling" to keep running.

[bbodie52]

With only the two primary carburetors in play, there is not much difference between the 110hp and 140hp engines. They generally have the same camshaft, same compression ratio, same engine displacement. The 140hp comes on due to the additional two carburetors AND the big valves and dual, large capacity exhaust system. (The latter two items don't make much difference when only the two primary carburetors are in play, and the secondaries are at rest.

My 110hp (Monza sedan engine) engine suffers from dyspnea (shortness of breath) when I'm climbing long uphill grades in the Blue Ridge Mountain area of western North Carolina..



A turbo engine would be great, if used with discretion and is properly tuned. But under these hilly conditions I miss the pleasure of the 140hp engine. I am considering trying an electronic fuel injection upgrade with a dual exhaust system on my 110hp engine, to see if the additional throttle body bore in dual EFI units would make a significant difference in local hill climbing (even though the big valve heads would not be there). I also wonder how it will affect fuel mileage if I change to an EFI system.

[66vairguy]

I like fuel injection and today there are some nice systems made by large corporations that back them up.

The problem with the Corvair is only a couple of folks make EFI systems and support depends on the longevity of the individual. I've followed the Brown systems and he stopped making the old system because he can't get parts to make them and was working on a newer system.

I can't bring myself to spend the money and do the work for something that I may not be able to repair in the future.

[Gmauk]

Wow! Thank all of you for all the information!

65Monza140, thanks for the thoughts. I actually do have a 140HP engine. Not sure if I can locate all four carbs. At some point the 180HP engine was pulled and the 140 installed. Not sure why it was switched back. The Subaru transaxle is an interesting idea. I'd like to know if the outer CV joints were changed as well. And if so with what. No, I certainly would not consider the Cord a speed demon! It is not a comfortable car to drive.

Mr. Bodie, sounds like it's true - experience is brutal teacher. Between your posts and 66vairguy I am not sure what to do now. I have the Cuesta Grade (6% ~200' to 1200') that I would like to be able to drive on occasion. My car will not be a daily driver by any stretch of the imagination. But I would like to be able to have a certain level of reliability.

66vairguy, is there a fuel injection setup you would consider for a 140HP?

While I do have the 140HP engine, most carbs and intake manifold, my car does not have dual exhaust, despite the 180HP engined Cords specified to have such.

[Gmauk]

Wow! Thank all of you for all the information!

65Monza140, thanks for the thoughts. I actually do have a 140HP engine. Not sure if I can locate all four carbs. At some point the 180HP engine was pulled and the 140 installed. Not sure why it was switched back. The Subaru transaxle is an interesting idea. I'd like to know if the outer CV joints were changed as well. And if so with what. No, I certainly would not consider the Cord a speed demon! It is not a comfortable car to drive.

Mr. Bodie, sounds like it's true - experience is brutal teacher. Between your posts and 66vairguy I am not sure what to do now. I have the Cuesta Grade (6% ~200' to 1200') that I would like to be able to drive on occasion. My car will not be a daily driver by any stretch of the imagination. But I would like to be able to have a certain level of reliability.

66vairguy, is there a fuel injection setup you would consider for a 140HP?

While I do have the 140HP engine, most carbs and intake manifold, my car does not have dual exhaust, despite the 180HP engined Cords specified to have such.

[emmaagro]

Built in Auburn, Indiana, the Cord was the first front-wheel-drive car to use constant-velocity joints. While commonly used today in all front-wheel-drive vehicles, their first use Core Ball was on the 1929 Cord.Collaborative Research and Dissemination (CORD) is an independent research group that seeks to articulate the problems of the disadvantaged based on field work and analysis of secondary data and documents. CORD endeavours to influence policy and public opinion by making its research findings accessible to the public.The cord was originally devised in order to measure firewood and was so named because a line, string, or cord was used to tie the wood into a bundle

[vairmech]

I like fuel injection and today there are some nice systems made by large corporations that back them up.

The problem with the Corvair is only a couple of folks make EFI systems and support depends on the longevity of the individual. I've followed the Brown systems and he stopped making the old system because he can't get parts to make them and was working on a newer system.

I can't bring myself to spend the money and do the work for something that I may not be able to repair in the future.

Apparently you haven't looked lately at the web site for Ted Brown. He is now doing the FI using Corvair carb bases, bored out if you want, and his cast top with the injector in it. Very serviceable and the parts are supported by the manufacturer also!
Now with that there is also the "Sniper" systems out there and it has been reported to me that they are basically plug and play self tuning.

BTW, I am an A&P also. Worked in aviation for 20 years and started making more money working on Corvairs! When I was working in aviation I helped the avionics guys out as I would generally cut the panels and mount the instruments and radios. We had just gotten color radar and glass panels were being talked about!