has this ever happened to anyone before?

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Bobby65
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Location: Grand Ledge, Michigan

has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by Bobby65 »

my rear motor mount bolts snapped and my engine fell and dragged on the ground, :sad5: :banghead: :assault: :angry: :eek: i jacked the engine back up put 2 ratchet straps to hold it up untill i got home, i have already drilled and tapped the holes and i have the engine back in and its good now :rafman: , i did go one size up from 3/8 bolts to 7/16 and used grade 8 so this wont happen again, I guess i see why chevrolet used 4 bolts after 65 for the rear mount
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Drive it like you stole it
65 Turbo Monza Coupe
64 monza convertible 4 spd
Grand Ledge, Michigan

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UNSAFE
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Re: has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by UNSAFE »

It has not happened to me but it was a fairly common problem back in the day. Not usually the bolts breaking
but the rubber bond failing.

I think in 66 they added an internal catch so that even if the mount failed the motor wouldn't drop down too much .

I am using one of Clarks aftermarket mounts and it comes will a failsafe device .

I cut that part off and I use a short piece of chain as the safety device .
Kevin Willson
1965 Monza 3.1
Juneau Alaska

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bbodie52
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Re: has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by bbodie52 »

There is a debate about the Clark's late model rear mount that has been going on for several days now on Facebook. As of this date I have yet to hear of a response from Clark's Corvair Parts regarding this questionable rear mount, but here are the comments so far for your information...
John Miller, via Facebook wrote:Image

John Miller
April 28


Had a catastrophic failure of this mount this weekend. Clark's sells this unit for late models. I cannot recommend this to anyone after what occured today. Not only did the internal bolts snap along with the rubber, but the 'lap' piece (secondary stop) bent upwards and wedged itself between the frame and oil filter, obviously too weak to support the engine. Now if we drove this car hard, over rough roads I could give it some slack....but this car is super babied all the time and never driven hard...EVER!....my thoughts?...dont use this!

Corvair Restoration Good to know. Thanks John.
Monday at 1:34am

John Miller this is obviously a new unit....i will get pics of the failed unit soon
Monday at 4:45am

Brad Bodie I assume that this is Clark's P/N: C11536. They market this as "Heavy Duty" and sell it for less money than the 1965 or 1966-69 designs. Described by Clark's as: "Higher torque and load capacity, larger vulcanized area, slightly stiffer than original. FAIL SAFE DESIGN." This is a serious reported failure and apparent defect. Have you reported this failure to Clark's? If so, what was their response? I would guess Clark's would want to thoroughly investigate such a defect and would possibly want to consider discontinuing their sale and a possible recall if they prove to be faulty. Also, would you list this information and photographs, and possibly Clark's response, on the Corvair Forum to gain wider dissemination of this information?
Monday at 6:38am

Tom Dudak And this part is what?
Monday at 8:02am

Teresa Miller Motor mount. catastrophic failure! Brad Bodie, this just happened on Saturday. I plan to photograph the broken part and send the info to Clarks
Monday at 8:25am

Hank Kaczmarek About 2 years ago while I was still working for Steele Rubber Products I was told Clark's would no longer be sending us original mounts to rebuild. The only thought I had at that time was "Cheap Chinese Junk to increase profit". Steele still rebuilds customer originals on engine and transmission mounts, but never has units in stock----you have to send in your old ones. At the time i got the word I knew I'd never buy one of these new Clark's mounts. Sorry this happened to you. The originals weren't the best design, but the only ones I ever saw fail were due to age, or people doing dumb stuff like jacking up the back of the car on the engine mount.
Monday at 8:37am

John Miller I was totally amazed how bad it was....you know how people say they had a corvair and the motor fell out...
Monday at 8:46am

Hank Kaczmarek There was a good reason for clark's decision to go cheap. Any Engine or Trans mount is very labor intensive to rebuild. First the old rubber must be burned off the mount. The steel pieces have to be sandblasted and prepped with a special paint that helps the rubber to adhere. Then the pieces go into the plant to be placed in a mold and rubber poured in. Then the flashing must be hand trimmed. Steele decided to cut the percentage of the dealer discount that Clark's and the other Vair Vendors got for mounts, and it was a pretty healthy cut. What you put on your car was the result.
Monday at 8:50am

Brad Bodie Clark's has been in business for 40 years. Remanufacturing components that are no longer produced by GM is very much a part of that business, as is profit and survival (which we, as Corvair owners, depend on heavily). I don't blame Clark's for making business moves that appear to be necessary to maintain a healthy business, but it will be interesting to see what their reaction is to this failure report of such a critical item!
Monday at 9:12am

John Miller well lets not blame Clarks...I am surprised as anyone....this thing looks sturdy....I am wholy amazed it could fail
Monday at 9:15am

John Seaman I had one that came into the shop a few weeks ago that failed on a customers car. He had the car towed to my shop because the engine dropped down and he never seen the problem. Like Mel he thought it was something I did when I tuned his engine.
Tuesday at 8:32am

John Miller lets face it...lots of people put a jack under that part od the car.....not a good idea
Tuesday at 6:35pm

Hank Kaczmarek Absolutely Not!!! There are Jacking points on the body and they're there for a reason. Brad I don't know how long you've been in the hobby, but if Clark's was still getting their 50% off list discount on rebuilt GM Mounts from Steele, this part would never have been made. The entire world is filling up with cheap Chinese made junk. I don't blame the vendors when they go to China for something like an emblem, but here we're talking about what keeps the drivetrain off the ground, Engine and Transmission. We all know that GM didn't engineer these parts all that well, but trying to replace them with these parts makes no sense to me. Sure wouldn't want to be Autocrossing with these in there.
Tuesday at 6:41pm

Hank Kaczmarek Always nice to know that your mounts were made with maximum profit in mind, no?
Tuesday at 6:42pm

Brad Bodie I would still like to hear from Clark's regarding this issue. I suspect that they never would have put this component on the market if they felt it might be unsafe or substandard. In fact, their description indicates a probable belief that it was a better mount than the re-manufactured unit at a better price for the consumer. If it is now proven otherwise I would like to hear from Clark's on this problem and what they are going to do about it.
Tuesday at 8:29pm

Hank Kaczmarek So would I. Another CORSA member has made a home-made rear engine mount----saw a picture of it a few years ago. Made more sense than this thing.
Tuesday at 9:13pm

John Miller Brekke mount
Tuesday at 9:19pm
Of course this mount is not the same as the early mount bolt failure described at the start of this posting, but since the aftermarket Clark's unit with its associated "fail safe" feature was mentioned, I thought it appropriate to transcribe this material from Facebook for your consideration. I will post any additional material if it surfaces on Facebook.

Here is the subject motor mount information as currently listed on Clark's Corvair Parts online catalog, page 160...

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=160
Image
Part number C8058: REBUILT MOTOR MOUNT-65 CAR ORIG 65 STYLE (WILL FIT 66-69)

NOTICE: Price includes core value: $50.00. You will be issued a refund of $50.00 when you return the used part.

Weight: 8 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160
Price: $ 188.50


Part number C8059: REBUILT MOTOR MOUNT-66-69 *ARE OK FOR 65

NOTICE: Price includes core value: $50.00. You will be issued a refund of $50.00 when you return the used part.

Weight: 8 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160,RM 13
Price: $ 211.00


Part number C11536: HD MOTOR MOUNT 65-69 CARS MAY HAVE TO GRIND ON BOLTS WHEN ON A/C CAR

Weight: 6 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 160
Price: $ 106.10
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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davemotohead
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Re: has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by davemotohead »

I think you are saying the bolts broke that tie the MM to the rear frame member and the mount itself did not break? Could be someone over tightened them and they became weak from stretching?

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UNSAFE
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Re: has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by UNSAFE »

That's the mount that I have been running for several years now -- of course I baby my car :cool:

It is hard to imagine that metal failsafe bending just from the weight of the motor . The dang piece must be a quarter inch thick .

That's why I cut it off on my mount - too heavy .

So now I have a short piece of chain that will support the engine if the mount fails . Of course if the bolt breaks I will be SOL .

.
Could be someone over tightened them and they became weak from stretching?
My dad used to tell me not to worry about the bolts that I broke ----- worry about the ones I almost broke !

Yea - most likely they had been over tightened at some point.
Kevin Willson
1965 Monza 3.1
Juneau Alaska

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davemotohead
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Re: has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by davemotohead »

I use the 66 and up mounts and bolt them,they still swing side to side but not up and down,Have never had a problem with one like this and have never broke anything,,Oh ya I baby my cars also,But I spank my babies! :assault:
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bbodie52
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Re: has this ever happened to anyone before?

Post by bbodie52 »

So far, it seems that two key points have been made here...

1. :wrench: It is a good idea to install fresh GRADE 8 bolts when installing Corvair rear engine mounts. Any bolt can fatigue over time, and a lot of time has accumulated in the case of Corvairs. Also, these bolts should always be torqued to specifications stated in the shop manual. Over-tightening can weaken and stretch these fasteners, causing hidden damage. These weakened fasteners may not snap right away, but may snap unexpectedly at a future time. Of course, the owner may never know if the bolts were over-tightened in the past by someone else, and if they were that hidden damage may be undetectable by simple examination. :dontknow: NEW GRADE 8 FASTENERS, PROPER WASHERS, ETC., AS OFFERED BY CLARK'S, PROPERLY TORQUED TO SPECIFICATIONS, MAY BE THE BEST INSURANCE. :think:

2. :whoa: NEVER JACK YOUR CORVAIR UP USING A JACK PLACED UNDER THE POWERTRAIN! Doing so -- as in placing a floor jack under a convenient lifting point, such as under the differential, can greatly overstress the engine mounts. These mounts were engineered to be adequate to hold the hanging, vibrating weight of the powertrain. If the rear of the car is jacked up by jacking under the powertrain, the entire rear weight of the car body, battery and rear suspension is hanging on and stressing the rubber engine mount in a way that is perhaps way beyond the intended, engineered design. Such a stress may cause hidden damage that surfaces later in the form of a failed mount and a falling engine -- perhaps at highway speeds! :doh:
:omgosh:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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