Hard Starting When Hot

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BritCars
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Hard Starting When Hot

Post by BritCars »

With its newly installed rebuilt distributor from Clarks, my Monza started easily and ran quite well on its trip to the mainland yesterday. I had only the slightest amount of pinging under hard acceleration uphill in fourth gear. I was able to fill the gas tank with premium gas [unavailable on the island], too. The points were set to .16 and the timing was set to 12 degree just prior to departure yesterday.

The only running problem I noted was that when the engine was fully warmed up after a drive, I ran a few quick errands between different stores. This required starting and shutting down the car a few times for short periods of time.

When I did so, the car would be a hard start [requiring some extra cranking] and then would stall out easily, the moment the clutch engaged. Then it would be a hard start again. I did not smell any fuel or see and white smoke indicating obvious flooding.

The car runs as if the carbs are balanced properly and the choke opens and closes properly. Outside temperatures yesterday were only in the 60's. I have tried to test for vacuum leaks at the carb base and found no obvious leakage there. The car is quite stock; the gas lines in the engine compartment are new as of last week.

I've searched this forum for previous posts and found recommendations about the carb base spacers; since the car is quite stock, I have to assume the correct spacers are on the car. Any other hints or recommendations?

Thanks,

Jeff
Jeff Aronson
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Phil Dally
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by Phil Dally »

Check the fuel line rubber hoses inside the left rear wheel and up front where the tank connects to the main tubing.

If not new when they get hot they can swell up on the inside and restrict the flow of fuel.

A good trick to help the fuel flow is a Facet pump in the front hose location behind the sheet metal piece there.

Include a good glass cleanable fuel filter and you will never have another fuel supply problem ever.

Easy install and nobody will know except 5 million forum members. ::-):
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BritCars
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by BritCars »

I have a newer Facet fuel pump in place right now. The fuel stones were checked recently and quite clean. I have no objection to another fuel filter but wonder why?

The problem I described above seems to affect the car mostly at idle or low speeds. Once under way with a strong push from the accelerator, the car runs fine.

Jeff
Jeff Aronson
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Phil Dally
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by Phil Dally »

Mucho easier to clean a remote filter rather than the stones.

Forgot to mention the strainer in the tank on the sender...is it original.

Of course this is all predicated on you actually having a fuel problem.

How about the stock fuel pump...new or original???
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by BritCars »

Right now the original pump is just a "pass through." I have no record of whether is was ever replaced. The gas tank strainer is likely original. I've never had the tank off the car.

It behaves like a fuel problem in that it's only a hot start issue, not a hot running issue. An overheating coil would create misfires, and that's not what's happening here.

Jeff
Jeff Aronson
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Phil Dally
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by Phil Dally »

Check the hoses mentioned and consider pulling the sender to check the strainer.

Sender comes out without tank removal...be sure to drain tank completely...good luck.
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UNSAFE
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by UNSAFE »

Corvairs typically are somewhat hard to start after sitting hot for a few minutes. The fuel boils out of the carbs and basically floods the engine. When hot I usually just hold the pedal to the floor until it starts.

Also - I'd recheck the points , preferably when hot. The gap will change with temperature and they may be barely opening when hot.
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Kevin Willson
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by mart »

I'd do a proper check on those carb spacers, sounds like fuel vaporising or vapour lock. Check your chokes are not closing off too soon after you have stopped,or are not fully opening when hot, I've heard the linkages can cause problems,, a quick look in top of carbs before you start it up will soon tell you
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by miniman82 »

On my turbo, it was a timing issue. Try retarding timing to 8*, and see if that cures it.
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by flat6_musik »

My dimestore diagnosis would point to what Unsafe mentioned......fuel percolating and flooding the engine out. Yes, definitely check for the carb spacers/insulators. Also, you would be able to hear that chugging sound once it did fire off that would tell you it's a bit flooded. Hope your fuel pressure isn't overwhelming the needle and seats with that electric pump.

Also, you don't necessarily have to see white or black smoke if it's a tad flooded.
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by 4carbcorvair »

What they all said.

Not sure when the last time you filled the Corvair up? We are now back to our 'summer fuel' too. I would go back and check your timing for starters when the engine is warmed up, make sure it didn't move on you. Than check your points gap again. If you were not having the problem prior to the distributor replacement, I would start with it.
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Luke Geis
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by Luke Geis »

In my experience it has usually been related to a lean air mixture adjustment at the carb. These adjustments are supposed to be made when the engine is hot ( as it would be ) and too be set at best lean idle. If the idle air mixture screw is set too lean it will not run well when hot and will certainly be a hard starter.

Try setting this adjustment when the engine is in this state ( the hottest it will run ). The goal is t set the air idle screw for best lean idle. Turn each side in until obvious rough idling occurs and then turn it back in. When it is as far in as it can go without rough idle, then it is well set. Repeat this process for the other carb and double check on both. This should leave you with a carb that will run as well as it can with as hot of an engine as you expect to run.
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Trip
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by Trip »

Umm.... not sure why nobody has mentioned this yet..

The late model carbs (HV) have a little valve at the base of the carb that is designed to alleviate this problem. Vairs are still a bit prone to hard starting when hot regardless but proper adjustment of this valve should help.

At the base of the carb is a little sheet metal door (with a rubber seal) over a small hole. The valve is spring loaded to remain pressed up against the carb body and therefore closed. There is a little tab on the top of this thingy... when the throttle arm on the carb is all the way down it has an arm that is supposed to press up against this tab to hold the little valve slightly open and allow the vapor in the carb throat to vent out.

This thingy is very easy to knock out of adjustment and also very easy to adjust... it is just a matter of bending a really thin bit of sheet metal. Extremely easy when the carb is off the car, requires a bit of contortion and/or a mirror when installed on the car.
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martyscarr
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by martyscarr »

BritCars said: "The points were set to .16" <- really means .016

I'm not saying this is the problem you are having....but I have found that points set with a feeler gauge often do not give a correct dwell reading when measured with a dwell meter. The dwell meter reading (31-34*) is what you want to obtain, the feeler gauge reading is just supposed to get you there.

I always see dwell meters at garage sales for $2 or $3, as well as other tune up equipment. Modern cars have made this equipment obsolete, and they go for cheap.

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Re: Hard Starting When Hot

Post by BritCars »

I did really mean .016. And I checked it a couple of times because I screwed it up the first time I set them with a feeler gauge. A dwell meter will always be more accurate; I may even have one tucked away somewhere.

The distributor is a recent Clark's rebuild so I doubt there is much difference between warm and hot in terms of gapping. The car behaves more as if it's flooding when warm than running lean. I'll have it on the mainland in a couple of weeks for some longer drives and will be able to see if the symptoms continue.

Jeff
Jeff Aronson
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'66 Corvair Monza Coupe 110/4
'66 Land Rover Series II-A 88"
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