Gremlins!

All Models and Years
User avatar
Trip
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: Lake Ariel, PA

Gremlins!

Post by Trip »

Update: Solved!

That is the cause... I'm sure of it!

Two days ago the right turn signal stopped working. The switch feels fine but nothing happens. I checked at the sockets and the signal wire just stays grounded when I turn on the switch as opposed to the working one which makes and breaks ground. Based on these checks I'm fairly certain the problem is not in the sockets... likely the switch.

I pulled into a gas station 10 minutes from home just now (in the 63' Monza) and turned the key off, nothing happened. I switched it back and forth, felt ok but no reaction from the car.

I got out, filled up, got back in, and turned left out of the parking lot. The fan/gen light came on (maybe it was already on dimly and got bright). I pulled into a parking lot and checked the belt..... it was fine. I pulled back out and then observed that any time I turned the left turn signal on the Gen light got bright (dim the rest of the time) and the wipers stopped! Turning the switch to run had the same effect, in "off" the gen light dimmed and wipers resumed. Around the same time I noticed the steering wheel squeaking when I turn which it never did before... making me think maybe part of the problem goes back to the signal that died the other day without explanation.

Also the headlight switch was on this whole time due to rain, but I observed when I got home that I had no lights at all. No burning smell or anything.

I got home, pulled the coil wire off, disconnected the negative battery cable, and came upstairs to write this! Here I sit... I figure the ignition switch is the most likely culprit but not sure how to check it (I dont have any other early model switches).

I'm going to look over the diagrams, but I doubt they will help. From what little I know these kind of "gremlins" are usually ground related.

I do not have any EM literature either.

Thanks!
Last edited by Trip on Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ray "Trip" Rodriguez III
Gouldsboro, PA
66 Corsa 140 coupe
65 Corsa 180 Turbocharged coupe
64 Monza Convertible
61 Air conditioned Monza coupe (Missy's)
See them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydc7txrf
User avatar
BajaBill
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Redding, CA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by BajaBill »

Back to basics, check all the ground straps.
BajaBill Bestor,
1965 Corsa 140,
Should have never sold, 60 4 dr, 62 Monza (rolled), 64 Spyder, 65 Corsa 140, 67 PG Vert and a 63? Greenbriar a hippie gave me in 69.
User avatar
Trip
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: Lake Ariel, PA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Trip »

BajaBill wrote:Back to basics, check all the ground straps.
aye, but I only know the location of a few!
Ray "Trip" Rodriguez III
Gouldsboro, PA
66 Corsa 140 coupe
65 Corsa 180 Turbocharged coupe
64 Monza Convertible
61 Air conditioned Monza coupe (Missy's)
See them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydc7txrf
User avatar
Scott H
Site Admin
Posts: 4175
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:21 pm
Location: Hesperia, CA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Scott H »

Wish I could help. Only car I have got running so far is my late model. The turn signal harness does contain allot of those suspect wires in my 65 so maybe they are similar in the EM's check that harness out closely. :think:
Scott
1960 Monza Coupe
1965 Evening Orchid Corsa Turbo (project)
1961 Rampside (project)
1964 Spyder coupe (patina car, running)
1964 faux Spyder (project/parts car)
1964 Monza (parts car)
1963 Monza (parts car)
User avatar
Scott H
Site Admin
Posts: 4175
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:21 pm
Location: Hesperia, CA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Scott H »

Grymm wrote:
BajaBill wrote:Back to basics, check all the ground straps.
aye, but I only know the location of a few!
4 of them in the engine compartment? in each corner?
Scott
1960 Monza Coupe
1965 Evening Orchid Corsa Turbo (project)
1961 Rampside (project)
1964 Spyder coupe (patina car, running)
1964 faux Spyder (project/parts car)
1964 Monza (parts car)
1963 Monza (parts car)
User avatar
caraholic4life
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:19 pm
Location: Westminster, Maryland

Re: Gremlins!

Post by caraholic4life »

As memory serves.....When Gremlins get wet, they multiply.

Watch out for Spike. :rolling:
1962 95 FC Van
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe
1965 Monza Coupe
1965 Monza Convertible
Mid Engine enthusiast &
Prior Kelmark Owner
User avatar
UNSAFE
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 2006
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:19 pm

Re: Gremlins!

Post by UNSAFE »

It's possible that you have a few different problems.

Electrical problems can be a PITA. I like to use the idea of water flowing in a garden hose to diagnose electrical problems. If water (voltage) is going in one end it should come out the other unless there is a leak (short circuit) or an obstruction (open circuit).

A few common problem points are the + wire connector where the battery pigtail connects to the plastic insulator on the frame. The dimmer switch itself can cause lighting problems. The ground connections at the actual light housings are also trouble spots.

At the very least you will need a test light or a multi-meter to troubleshoot . You can check for bad grounds with the test light.

You can unplug the ignition switch and use jumper leads to eliminate the ignition switch as the problem.

You really do need a wiring schematic to help trace the problem . I don't have any early stuff so I can't help you. I do kinda vaguely remember the wiring diagrams being on the web ?????
Attachments
219.jpg
219.jpg (116.73 KiB) Viewed 961 times
Kevin Willson
1965 Monza 3.1
Juneau Alaska
User avatar
Trip
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: Lake Ariel, PA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Trip »

Scott Howey wrote:
Grymm wrote:
BajaBill wrote:Back to basics, check all the ground straps.
aye, but I only know the location of a few!
4 of them in the engine compartment? in each corner?
LOL, sorry naturally I'm intimately familiar with those four, I was thinking in terms of what is under the dash etc. I've never spent much time under there thus far.
Ray "Trip" Rodriguez III
Gouldsboro, PA
66 Corsa 140 coupe
65 Corsa 180 Turbocharged coupe
64 Monza Convertible
61 Air conditioned Monza coupe (Missy's)
See them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydc7txrf
User avatar
Trip
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: Lake Ariel, PA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Trip »

UNSAFE wrote: A few common problem points are the + wire connector where the battery pigtail connects to the plastic insulator on the frame.
You mean the HRPT!!! (horrible red plastic thingy) I learned about this on VV last year hehe, never had trouble with one yet myself but I've removed and installed them a few times.

After brainstorming at dinner tonight I think the two most likely culprits are the ingnition switch and the starter solenoid. I can't imagine anything else causing the engine to continue running with the ignition switch off. On the other hand I haven't yet figured out how either of these things would cause the strange lighting problems (including the gen/fan light) and the wiper issue.

I don't think it is terribly likely that the ignition switch problem and the lighting/wiper problem would be independent of the ignition problem given the fact that I discovered the two sets of symptoms within a minute or two of one another. Supporting this is the fact that turning the ignition switch back and forth affects the wipers and the gen/fan light.

Most of these systems are run through the ignition switch so that they will work only when the switch is on, so that seems the most likely place to look, though the headlights and tail lights are not run off that switch. Maybe the problem simply blew the "lights" fuse through its connection to the turn signals (which only work with the ignition on).

See.. things become clearer the more I talk about it.

So I think the ignition switch is most likely. If the problem was at the solenoid (bypass being kept hot by a malfunction there) I think the starter motor would be spinning constantly as well (if I remember the wiring correctly).
Ray "Trip" Rodriguez III
Gouldsboro, PA
66 Corsa 140 coupe
65 Corsa 180 Turbocharged coupe
64 Monza Convertible
61 Air conditioned Monza coupe (Missy's)
See them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydc7txrf
User avatar
UNSAFE
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 2006
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:19 pm

Re: Gremlins!

Post by UNSAFE »

I don't remember the details but I remember reading somewhere about the gen or alt causing the light to be on and this allows enough current to go thru the bulb and maintain ignition.

MSD ignition recommends a diode to prevent this. Not saying that it's your problem but you may be on to something with the gen light coming on.

The red plastic thingy itself isn't usually the problem but the wire rings themselves do corrode where they mount to the HRPT.

Not sure if earlys have a bypass circuit from the Solenoid to the coil or not. You could turn the key on and see how much voltage you have at the coil and then turn the key off and check again. You could remove the gen light bulb and then see if the engine will shut off. ETC :dontknow:
Kevin Willson
1965 Monza 3.1
Juneau Alaska
User avatar
Trip
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: Lake Ariel, PA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Trip »

Got it fixed today =)

First I pulled the ignition switch... much more of a pain than on my lates!!! Getting the switch out without taking apart half the dash was what was really a pain. The trouble was the PG shifter in the way, so on a manual trans car it would have been simple I suppose.

I took out the ignition switch and tested it. It seemed fine. Next I checked the wires that run through the switch. I found that there was continuity between the power and ignition leads so that confirmed that it was not an intermittent problem in the switch. I have a pretty good idea of most of the wiring in the Corvair except for the dash so I started at the coil end and worked back toward the dash. I found the problem (no surprise here) at the "firewall" connector.

This connector had suffered a minor incident in the past that had melted it just a little bit. I had checked the connector and everything was fine other than the slightly deformed exterior. Apparently when the slight melting had occurred the coil wire had been up against the heavy wire that goes to the top of the voltage regulator and the insulation had been damaged a bit where they were touching. Since these wires remained in the same position they rubbed together continuously until they managed to make contact long enough to get hot. When this happened they melted the insulation enough to stick together and stay that way. The wire from the voltage regulator was feeding 12v directly into the coil wire through this short.

So problem solved =)

Thanks all for the help!
Ray "Trip" Rodriguez III
Gouldsboro, PA
66 Corsa 140 coupe
65 Corsa 180 Turbocharged coupe
64 Monza Convertible
61 Air conditioned Monza coupe (Missy's)
See them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydc7txrf
User avatar
Scott H
Site Admin
Posts: 4175
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:21 pm
Location: Hesperia, CA

Re: Gremlins!

Post by Scott H »

Nice job Grymm! :clap: :woo:
Scott
1960 Monza Coupe
1965 Evening Orchid Corsa Turbo (project)
1961 Rampside (project)
1964 Spyder coupe (patina car, running)
1964 faux Spyder (project/parts car)
1964 Monza (parts car)
1963 Monza (parts car)
Post Reply

Return to “Ask your Mechanical Questions here”