Alternator swap?

[playerpage]

Hey guys.

I think it's pretty obvious I need a new alternator. I keep ruining batteries. So I'm going to get another battery but I think I need to change out my alternator for something else. Clarks and California Corvairs both sell a 65 amp alternator, but I think I need something more The one I had I bought from California Corvairs about 6 years ago and it is 80 amps.

This 110 amp version is for sale but it of course doesn't have the right top. Would I be able to swap the top and fan on my existing alternator and put it on this one?

RAREELECTRICAL 110A CHROME STREET ROD GM HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATOR COMPATIBLE WITH 1-ONE WIRE SELF EXCITING ENERGIZING https://a.co/d/bCGzRo7

[cnicol]

What equipment is in your car that makes it need a higher output alternator? Why would the alternator ruin your battery; that's more of a regulator or wiring issue.

If you go with an internally regulated alternator, make sure you get the 3-wire, not the 1-wire version so you retain your GEN/FAN warning light. Without the light you won't know a belt or alternator is broken and you won't know you have a problem until it overheats and pops the TEMP/OIL light.

Note that the electrical system is designed for about a 55-amp maximum current capacity so if you install equipment that draws more you also need to improve the main supply wiring in addition to the larger alternator.

[Lane66Monza]

If you aren't running the car every day or every few days, you need to put the battery on a 0.8 amp trickle charger. It will maintain the battery while it is not used for days or weeks. The OEM clock will run battery down after a week with its current draw.

Best trickle charger I found was at Northern tools, which has a desulfator.

BatteryMINDer Plus Battery Charger/Trickle Charger/Desulfator — 12 Volt, 1 Amp, Model# 12117TC

https://www.northerntool.com/products/b ... lsrc=aw.ds

[County98]

Agree with above. Not sure what you're planning to run, but that seems like overkill.

I upgraded to the 63a 3 wire and still upgraded my main power feed from battery to fuse box. It should be enough to run the whole car nicely, plus accessories and an Amp for stereo.

Car stereo guys talk about upgrading the "big 3" which is upgrading ground and hot wire sizes.

I'd upgrade your cabling first. If you do run a giant alternator and DO have something pulling that much juice, you'll melt your little 10guage feed wire.

[playerpage]

Thanks, all.

One of the things I love about Corvair guys is the way they will cheer you on in the hobby, but every now and then also pull you back from doing something really foolhardy.

I am more than likely dealing with wiring issues. I'm always dealing with wiring issues. I have ordered a new battery (it doesn't put out but barely 12.8 volts, even with the engine running), but I will hold off on doing anything with my alternator. I haven't fully tested it, anyway.

I'm only really running a radio, an amplifier, a charger, and my headlights. It shouldn't be that big of a draw. But I believe I do have a power leak somewhere--maybe it's my after-market radio maintaining its settings. It seems like I replace the battery every year.

Of course, the car sitting in 60 below when its in storage every winter could be affecting it, too.

Cheers.

[cnicol]

12.8 volts running could be a lot of things but one thing it isn't is "right". Bad alternator or bad regulator or bad battery. Pick one, pick two, or pick three. You're going to need a proper diagnostic, including parasitic drain while not running, to figure out the culprit)(s).

[66vairguy]

So far the comments to your problem have been excellent.

I did NOT notice what alternator you are using? Is it the 10DN external regulated alternator, the 10SI internally regulated alternator and is it the ONE WIRE, or THREE wire design? Does the instrument cluster FAN/GEN warning light come on when you turn the key ON, but before you start the engine?

Unless you have a power hungry item like a huge stereo amplifier the basic internally regulated 63Amp 10SI alternator (you can find at most auto parts stores - 1978 Camaro with A/C) with the Corvair 10DN front housing and fan/pulley is more than adequate. NOTE: Information I have read states the GM alternator fan on the 10DN and 10SI is only rated to dissipate heat from generating 80Amps. When GM went to higher output alternators they used a revised front alternator housing and fan design the is NOT adaptable to the Corvair (reverse rotation).

A fully charged battery (after sitting a day without being used) should hold at 12.8VDC. A battery is considered mostly discharged at 12.3VDC!

With the car running the alternator should output 13.8 to 14.8VDC at idle depending on the charge state of battery and accessories that are on. NOTE: never run the alternator with the battery disconnected!!!

[manvair]

If you do decide to put in a new 10SI alternator, use a three wire, not a one wire. The latter sometimes have trouble self energizing at low speeds.

[Frank DuVal]

If you do decide to put in a new 10SI alternator, use a three wire, not a one wire. The latter sometimes have trouble self energizing at low speeds.

And you loose the very important GEN FAN light on the dash!

The 3V cross section of the Corvair fan belt with its 90° wrap will NOT supply a 110 amp load without slipping.

I have ordered a new battery (it doesn't put out but barely 12.8 volts, even with the engine running),

This is an alternator/regulator issue unless the 10 awg wire going to the battery positive terminal is getting really hot! (from a shorted battery) A better question is what is the terminal voltage when the engine isn't running. A bad battery is one that looses voltage while it is disconnected from the vehicle.

Ordered a battery? Group 24 should be on the shelf at Walmart everywhere!

[66vairguy]

If you do decide to put in a new 10SI alternator, use a three wire, not a one wire. The latter sometimes have trouble self energizing at low speeds.

To "turn on" at idle speeds (after just starting the car) the alternator circuit needs electrical power. Different schemes, but the GM design required the least wiring!! It is clever and some engineer at DELCO earned his salary. When you turn on the igntion key power is supplied TO the FAN/GEN warning lamp and leaves it to go to the regulator circuit were it is applied to the alternator "field" to energize the alternator at slow rotation speeds. When the alternator "turns on" and supplies power the path FROM the warning lamp goes open (or the same voltage is applied to both sides of the bulb so NO current flows - so it is effectively off).

Only three wires to alternator - BIG wire to battery to supply electrical power, small wire from warning lamp, and small wire to battery so the alternator regulator (external or internal) can control voltage level at the battery.

One wire alternators were developed as a SIMPLE install. Someone discovered DELCO made an alternator board that did not use sense or warning lamp wires as it was for industrial engines that start up and run at a higher fixed speed. Just one wire to the battery. Only problem is you have rev up the engine so the alternator "turns on". This is called alternator "self energizing". Not a problem on industrial engines, but on cars and trucks "one wire" alternators will not "turn on" at engine idle unless the engine is revved up first. Even worse you have NO warning light when the fan belt comes off!!!!

[vairmech]

I haven't read all the replies but what is your running voltage at the battery? If it is above 14v or below 13,5v adjust your regulator! It's all in the shop manual on how to do it. Although if you have an aftermarket regulator you may have to bend a tang but just be careful not to ground out when you do that.

I always ask, why spend money when you don't have to?!!

[Frank DuVal]

I always ask, why spend money when you don't have to?!!

Ah, you must be a Corvair (or Studebaker) owner!

[playerpage]

More good comments fellas. Way to draw out information from me--
It's a three-wire internally regulated alternator. Talking Reading here and also talking with Craig in private messaging, I'm less convinced it's my alternator and more convinced it's a power leak issue. But I certainly do need the battery replaced. The voltage sits at like 10.8 without anything running or hooked up to it.

[Lane66Monza]

When it is 60 below, you should have pulled the battery and put it in a warm garage on a trickle charger to preserve its life. Anything below freezing will slowly take the life out of a battery. 3 winters at those temps and your battery is a goner, if you didn't take any precautions to protect it while car was in cold storage.

A couple articles for you read about cold weather and batteries.

https://www.chapelhilltire.com/does-the ... %20started.

https://www.sunautoservice.com/about-us ... d-weather/

Question: do you have the OEM Corsa clock operational? If it is not operational, have you removed power from the clock to ensure its solenoid won't receive any power?

[playerpage]

Lane! Light bulb!

No, I don't have a clock anymore. What I DO have, what I put in its place, is a voltage indicator. (See photo.) I'm using the clock's original power source for it. Could it be a draw? I never thought of it as drawing power, just reading it.



Even if it isn't, I'm sure it's one of several possibilities. Whenever I engage or disengage the battery, I hear a physical 'click' somewhere inside the car. I say "physical 'click'" because I don't only clearly hear it--if I'm touching the car I feel the vibration it produces, albeit very, very, slight. Something is drawing power, whether the car is running or not.

Yeah, I guess I'm out another battery. I'll bet most of my issues will go away once the new one arrives.

Cheers,

Eric

P.S. - One of the values I bring to starting new threads is having no idea what my real problem is, so we all go on a journey together.

[66vairguy]

When it is 60 below, you should have pulled the battery and put it in a warm garage on a trickle charger to preserve its life. Anything below freezing will slowly take the life out of a battery. 3 winters at those temps and your battery is a goner, if you didn't take any precautions to protect it while car was in cold storage.

A couple articles for you read about cold weather and batteries.

https://www.chapelhilltire.com/does-the ... %20started.

https://www.sunautoservice.com/about-us ... d-weather/

Question: do you have the OEM Corsa clock operational? If it is not operational, have you removed power from the clock to ensure its solenoid won't receive any power?

I agree about cold weather issues and indications are the battery is bad. Today's gel batteries don't tolerate a total discharge. A battery minder is nice, but even if you only charge the battery once a month (keep it disconnected from car system) it will do fine. Today five years is the typical lifespan of a battery at which point they degrade, often fast.

Good advice on the clock. I always open a battery switch on my old cars if they sit for more that a day, or when parked in questionable areas!!!

Note years ago someone posted about why the old clock solenoids go bad. When the battery voltage goes low the clock points close, BUT the solenoid field is NOT strong enough to rewind the spring and OPEN the points. The clock points stay closed and the solenoid winding OVERHEAT which damages the solenoid coil. If the clock solenoid is shorted, or weak (resets too often since solenoid is weak) then then a low battery probably was the cause.