Loose rear drive axle spines

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AZScott
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Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by AZScott »

I have ’64 Spyder and the rear U-Joint yoke that bolts on the end of the axle is loose on the spines. I am using the thick washer and bolt that holds the yoke to the axle (and have it tortured), but still do not like the fact that the spines are loose. I have been looking around for used axles and yokes and while some of these are better than what I have, I can still feel a little wobble on these after they are mated up. My question. Is it possible to drill the end and put in a round key? It’s a hardened axle but I am sure a machine shop could do it. The thick washer would keep the key in place and it should be able to be removed with a gear puller. A second option would be to drill through the neck of the yoke and press in a pin. You would need to find the correct diameter of pin that would be strong enough to hold the yoke to the axle without weakening the axle, so not sure this option is feasible. I am curious if anyone has tried either one of these or maybe have heard of this being done successfully.
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64powerglide
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by 64powerglide »

Is the bolt the right length?????
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by terribleted »

The bolt should certainly get tight, BUT, the yokes are supposed to be a light to moderate press fit. Even with the bolt tight a worn axle or yoke can still be sloppy. Once the bolt has been fully tightened you should really be able to remove the bolt and not be able to remove the yoke from the axle without at least some tapping and good chance of needing a puller. When the yoke is all the way onto the axle there should be no slop bolt or no bolt. This said many axles and yokes are worn these days. I have run across this a number of times over the years. Most times a different yoke has solved the issue (the cast yokes seem to wear faster than the hardened steel axles). Recently I have had a couple axles that seem to be worn as yokes that are tight on other axles flop on them. My solution has always been to find a better yoke (or axle).....I fear this is not going to be as easy going forward. I have recently contemplated spot welding the yoke to the axle in a couple spots, I think this could make a slightly sloppy unit usable again, but, the welds would have to be cut for disassembly after that and the cast yoke is not the best for welding.
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AZScott
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by AZScott »

The bolt I am using is the correct length (with the proper thick washer), and when torqued on you can’t feel any movement with my hand. However with the pressures this must see in an operating car, I would think, there would still be movement on the spines. I my looking around for a good set with a truly tight fit, I am seeing a lot of loose ones. I agree with terribleted, going forward they will be more difficult to find. It looks to me like there would be enough material on the yoke for a round key, that could make some of the yokes usable. I am still out looking for better yokes, but was hoping that someone on the forum has tried or know of another option. If I don’t find a good set of yokes that fit snug to my shafts, I may try the end key option just for the hell of it.
63 Monza Coupe (164-4 carb)
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AZScott
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by AZScott »

Talked to a machinist, and pinning the end and using a round key would be very difficult because of the different hardness of the two materials you would need to drill through. The end mill would have a tendency to walk. In looking at the part, he felt pinning the neck (my second suggestion above) would be best option. He said he had seen this on similar type parts in other automotive applications. You couldn’t use a standard roll pin, but would need a hardened pin that would be press fit. I also talked to some local club members who have tried welding. The welding will hold but if the shaft needed to be removed later on, it becomes a very difficult operation with grinding off the welds or cutting the axle.
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by terribleted »

AZScott wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:38 am Talked to a machinist, and pinning the end and using a round key would be very difficult because of the different hardness of the two materials you would need to drill through. The end mill would have a tendency to walk. In looking at the part, he felt pinning the neck (my second suggestion above) would be best option. He said he had seen this on similar type parts in other automotive applications. You couldn’t use a standard roll pin, but would need a hardened pin that would be press fit. I also talked to some local club members who have tried welding. The welding will hold but if the shaft needed to be removed later on, it becomes a very difficult operation with grinding off the welds or cutting the axle.
I was thinking along the lines of a few good hot tack welds...they would be a bit of trouble to cut later with a cutoff wheel if removal was necessary. Done carefully I do not think it would be awful. Pinning through the yoke would present removal issues as well I would think. Need someone too tool up and make some new yokes:)
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tiger13
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by tiger13 »

One of your bigger problems with trying to weld tack weld on the axle, and I have tried doing this on a similar issue a few decades ago trying to keep a bearing retainer on a 57 Chevy rear axle that we used to use in circle track racing was in order to get a decent enough tack weld(s) to hold the bearing retainer on, the axle itself was heated up too much and developed stress cracks and sooner or later, the axle would shear off right at the retainer where it had been tack welded. Unfortunately it is just the nature of the beast, that axle is hardened, and by welding on it, there will be the chance it will fail. I have a pair of yokes that came off my 63 Monza that I made into a rat rod still hanging around that I can let you have for a good price, but yours is a 64, and I and they changed the rear suspension in that year, so I have no clue if they would fit yours or not.
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by terribleted »

tiger13 wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:25 pm One of your bigger problems with trying to weld tack weld on the axle, and I have tried doing this on a similar issue a few decades ago trying to keep a bearing retainer on a 57 Chevy rear axle that we used to use in circle track racing was in order to get a decent enough tack weld(s) to hold the bearing retainer on, the axle itself was heated up too much and developed stress cracks and sooner or later, the axle would shear off right at the retainer where it had been tack welded. Unfortunately it is just the nature of the beast, that axle is hardened, and by welding on it, there will be the chance it will fail. I have a pair of yokes that came off my 63 Monza that I made into a rat rod still hanging around that I can let you have for a good price, but yours is a 64, and I and they changed the rear suspension in that year, so I have no clue if they would fit yours or not.
Yes these possible issues as well as trying to get a good grab on the cast yoke. I would never use any yoke axle combo that had very noticeable slop anyway. I was just thinking about the possibility of doing this for the extra little bit of insurance on a yoke that can be taken on and off by hand but has little or no actual rotational slop. (might keep it from getting worse)
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64powerglide
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by 64powerglide »

Take the axles to a plating shop and have the splines hard chrome plated, give them the yokes to so they can check them until they get a fit that's not sloppy. I could do it if still had my dad's plating shop. I used to hard chrome Fuller T-10 tranny gears that were cut wrong then they would recut them. You have to find a good shop!!!!!!!
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by terribleted »

64powerglide wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:02 pm Take the axles to a plating shop and have the splines hard chrome plated, give them the yokes to so they can check them until they get a fit that's not sloppy. I could do it if still had my dad's plating shop. I used to hard chrome Fuller T-10 tranny gears that were cut wrong then they would recut them. You have to find a good shop!!!!!!!
THis is an excellent idea
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AZScott
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by AZScott »

Thanks 66powerglide, I agree, excellent idea,.. I plan to talk to my local plating shop on Monday.
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by davemotohead »

Most times its the yokes that wear and are lose, I find worn ones all the time and then ones that fit tight on the same axle
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Iceland Spyder
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by Iceland Spyder »

I had the same problem, but NOS U joint yoke solved the problem. Softer material in the yoke. Happy landing.
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by joelsplace »

If it isn't too loose I wonder if Locktite Stud & bearing mount would work? Here's what it claims to do:
"High strength for Heavy Duty applications. For permanently locking studs and press fits. Restores worn bearing houses. Replaces set screws and snap rings. Locks against vibration loosening. Requires extra effort for removal (OEM 99671-87T)."
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by 64powerglide »

Took me 3 days just to get mine off, "RUST". I don't know how they could loosen. I left my axle ends & yokes in diluted muriatic acid all night & still had to wire wheel the axles & they were still tight going back on.
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Re: Loose rear drive axle spines

Post by terribleted »

64powerglide wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:33 pm Took me 3 days just to get mine off, "RUST". I don't know how they could loosen. I left my axle ends & yokes in diluted muriatic acid all night & still had to wire wheel the axles & they were still tight going back on.
Sounds like you have some good ones:) I have never pulled a loose yoke from a powerglide car. The worn ones I have seen had all been in manual trans vehicles and probably vans more than cars.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
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