Modifying front cross members?

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lostboy
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Modifying front cross members?

Post by lostboy »

Without trying to deter me from keeping my 61 at its lowered status, can someone tell me if notching this area to get some clearance would drastically effect the structural integrity of the subframe? Thanks.

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-Steve
1961 Corvair 700 Sedan (80hp 3spd Gasoline Heat)
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SyntheticBlnkerFluid
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by SyntheticBlnkerFluid »

Well first off, I'm confused on what you're asking. What is the reason for needing to notch that? What do you need clearance for? To lower it?


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lostboy
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by lostboy »

SyntheticBlnkerFluid wrote:Well first off, I'm confused on what you're asking. What is the reason for needing to notch that? What do you need clearance for? To lower it?


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The car is already lowered, and the control arm is very close to the subframe right in that area. It doesn't hit, but I'm also slamming bump stops. My idea is to relocate the bump stops and section out that area of cross member so that I have a bit more travel. It's not reinforced in that area and I don't think clipping two inches out of it will hurt, but if anyone knows more than I do and thinks it will burden the rest of the are by doing so, I'll have to figure out a way to reinforce the area.


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MtnVairMike
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by MtnVairMike »

Should work. similar to C channeling the low rider truck folks do.

Thanks,
Mike
1966 Monza Convertible, 140HP-4 speed, Ermine White
1969 Monza Convertible, 110HP-PG, Frost Green, #3753
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lostboy
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by lostboy »

MtnVairMike wrote:Should work. similar to C channeling the low rider truck folks do.

Thanks,
Mike
No thank you Mike! Exactly what I wanted to know.

Thanks again,
Steve


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terribleted
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by terribleted »

If you want to be sure, cut out the area to the clearance you need and then weld similar thickness plates into the sides of the notches you cut to ad back strength. This is what low rider truck guys do. In the area pictured if you cut out your square, I would want to plate both sides up to the top of the spring tower With some small pieces of 3/16" flat stock cut to fit and if the inner end of the area was open after cutting perhaps a small piece to fill it in. I would guess that the assembly is likely strong enough that you could simply cut some out and forget about it, but, you will lose some support for inward movement of the lower control arm and it would be a shame to have the cross-member or control arm bracket bend in an abrupt maneuver or pothole when it would be quite easy this way to have it at least as strong as the factory part.
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lostboy
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by lostboy »

terribleted wrote:If you want to be sure, cut out the area to the clearance you need and then weld similar thickness plates into the sides of the notches you cut to ad back strength. This is what low rider truck guys do. In the area pictured if you cut out your square, I would want to plate both sides up to the top of the spring tower With some small pieces of 3/16" flat stock cut to fit and if the inner end of the area was open after cutting perhaps a small piece to fill it in. I would guess that the assembly is likely strong enough that you could simply cut some out and forget about it, but, you will lose some support for inward movement of the lower control arm and it would be a shame to have the cross-member or control arm bracket bend in an abrupt maneuver or pothole when it would be quite easy this way to have it at least as strong as the factory part.
Yeah my buddy that builds mud trucks said the same. He's my resident frame expert but I wanted to see what you guys thought. Ok. A project for another day then. We were discussing it today and ultimately I'd like to make some tubular drop arms with heim joints. I think I'll leave it alone for now. Thanks for the replies at least now I know what you're thoughts are.


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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by thewolfe »

Another way to get lower without building new control arms is by installing longer ball joints. Chrysler screw in upper ball joints will lower the front end 1" without moving the control arm closer to the cross member. You can get extended length ball joints for even more drop. You must cut a hole in the control arm and weld in a sleeve and ream the spindles to accept the larger ball joint stud. Easier than building new arms. Here's a set I did with johnny joint spherical bushings. If you do the control arms you will want to do the brake reaction rods too. Takes all the bind out of the front suspension.
20170123_201544.jpg
IMG_20160125_200814.jpg
Nate Wolfe
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by MtnVairMike »

lostboy wrote:
MtnVairMike wrote:Should work. similar to C channeling the low rider truck folks do.

Thanks,
Mike
No thank you Mike! Exactly what I wanted to know.

Thanks again,
Steve


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What do you have against my lowrider truck? ;>)

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1969 Monza Convertible, 110HP-PG, Frost Green, #3753
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lostboy
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by lostboy »

thewolfe wrote:Another way to get lower without building new control arms is by installing longer ball joints. Chrysler screw in upper ball joints will lower the front end 1" without moving the control arm closer to the cross member. You can get extended length ball joints for even more drop. You must cut a hole in the control arm and weld in a sleeve and ream the spindles to accept the larger ball joint stud. Easier than building new arms. Here's a set I did with johnny joint spherical bushings. If you do the control arms you will want to do the brake reaction rods too. Takes all the bind out of the front suspension.
20170123_201544.jpg
IMG_20160125_200814.jpg
That's not bad at all. I dig that idea a lot.


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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by sirwaldizmo »

Vairy interesting theWolfe! Was this built for an LM? Any pics of the car?
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by thewolfe »

Yes, LM. I replaced all the bushings in the car that twist with johnny joints. Front lower control arms, brake reaction rods, rear torque arms, rear lower strut rods(strut rods I purchased from pmt fabrication). The spherical bushings remove all bind from the suspension so it is free to travel as intended which makes for a firm but smooth, precise ride with the HD springs and koni shocks. Hitting a pothole or a bump on one side can be a little harsh because of my stiff sway bars though. I have a 1" tubular chrome moly front bar and 3/4" rear bar. Clark's HD springs cut 1.25 coils in back, 1 coil up front with the big ball joints dropping another inch, adjustable bump steer adapters, custom quick steer arms. It handles very well around the twisties. I'm currently doing 2 more setups like mine for fellow local club members. Here's some shots of the front suspension, torque arms, and my car's stance.
su9e.jpg
su9d1.jpg
grass.JPG
Nate Wolfe
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by sirwaldizmo »

Good lord! :clap: Love the stance and that murdered out look. Thanks for the pics. Been meaning to buy a used front subframe and completely rebuild it. These mods are definitely something i'd consider. Do you have any interest in building a set for my 62'?
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by thewolfe »

Possibly. I would need the suspension cross member for the brake reaction rod modification though. Probably an expensive item to ship.
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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by lostboy »

The Wolfe what's the difference between those and heim joints?


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Re: Modifying front cross members?

Post by thewolfe »

Similar. Heim joints are metal on metal which makes for a harsh ride. Johnny joints have a large steel ball in a urethane shell which gives some cushion. They're also greasable, rebuildable, and available in the sizes needed for our suspensions.
johnny.jpg
Nate Wolfe
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