heating system?

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Akinon93
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heating system?

Post by Akinon93 »

hey everyone! it's been awhile since i posted here. my 67 monza has finally gotten its kinks worked out, no more vapor lock or electrical problems (mostly, brake switch is iffy think its time to replace)!

however, i have no heat, and with cold weather upon me in cincinnati driving around with foggy windows is inevitable unless i come up with a solution. so, i have 2 questions.

1.) Does anyone have info (perhaps shop manual diagrams?) on how the heating, defrost, and ventilation systemz work for a 1967 corvair monza?

2.) Does anyone know of any more modern "upgrades" i could perform? i'm wondering if it's possible to use some kind of electric heating. i dont need a toasty 70 degree interior, but a system that would warm it up at least a bit and at least defrost the windshield.

so far i've gotten away with leaving my window down which helps defog it like 90% of the way, but now weather is dipping towarda freezing so it's less of an option. other than that, the vair's been essentially my daily for nearly a month now! excluding a few very cold days this past week where i drove my corolla with functioning heat/defrosting.

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terribleted
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Re: heating system?

Post by terribleted »

The heating system is pretty straight forward. Heat is drawn from the shroud surrounding the exhaust manifolds thru 4" diameter hoses running to the heater box. The heater box has a fan which pushes the hot air forward thru a large plastic tube to the footwell area of the interior. From there it is routed to the dash or floor vents by mechanical doors operated by the slide levers on the heater controls. The owners manual and shop manual will make this pretty clear for both operation and system parts. If you do not have them you should get at least the 1965 shop manual and the 1967 shop manual supplement. There is lots of information spelling out he systems of the car and all the repair info and specifications you will need. The manuals are available from Clark's Corvair Parts for a reasonable cost. No heat can be caused by missing shrouding or hoses, broken control cables, and or an inoperative fan motor.

the factory system is more than adequate when complete and operating properly...it will run you out of the front of the car.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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Akinon93
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Re: heating system?

Post by Akinon93 »

thanks i've ordered the motor from clarks as well as the shop manuals. already put new hoses on last winter so those are good just motor is so weak

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bbodie52
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Re: heating system?

Post by bbodie52 »

The material below and the attached documents may be of some help...

Clark's Corvair Parts online catalog, pages 101-106 addresses ay heater components...
ImageImage
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=101
Image

Everything you ever wanted to know about the heater electrical control...

Heater Fan Selector Switch Electrical
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=9252

:chevy:
Attachments
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - HEATER CONTROLS AND DUCTS.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - HEATER CONTROLS AND DUCTS
(3.05 MiB) Downloaded 171 times
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 15 - HEATER.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 15 - HEATER
(4.38 MiB) Downloaded 114 times
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 12 - CHASSIS ELECTRICAL.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 12 - CHASSIS ELECTRICAL
(6.99 MiB) Downloaded 71 times
Corvair Maintenance - Engine Fume Odor Diagnosis.pdf
Corvair Maintenance - Engine Fume Odor Diagnosis
(472.19 KiB) Downloaded 67 times
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
66vairguy
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Re: heating system?

Post by 66vairguy »

The Corvair heater fan is notorious for poor grounding that will make even a new motor run slow.

Run a ground wire (same gauge as supply wire) from the motor housing to the cars body.

Also don't be surprised if you find debris in the blower housing when you remove the motor.
64powerglide
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Re: heating system?

Post by 64powerglide »

Mice love getting in Corvair's and making nests in the heating system, especially the fan. :eek:
64Powerglide, Jeff Phillips

Kalamazoo, Mi..
Akinon93
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Re: heating system?

Post by Akinon93 »

the heating system has already been gone through having taken the motor out and all, the motor just seems weak. i can feel heat in the main duct (the vent plate under rear seat is off for now so i can reach inside the duct) after a good while but i can barely feel any sort of "flow".

i may also try the grounding wire trick


edit: added ground wire, it did help. i'd say the fan is at about double the old speed now, not that that's saying much. i can feel a little bit of air moving through the main duct now, so i think once my motor comes in it'll be good to go!
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Re: heating system?

Post by terribleted »

Are you sure the ducts are not clogged up? Have you removed the central tunnel tube and inspected it (could be critter nests in there). Are your control cables functional. If flapper doors are not operating the way they should they could be blocking the hot air flow. Is the fan running at all 3 speeds? High fan speed, in a properly functioning non clogged system will normally deliver enough flow with defrosters properly selected (rear under seat vent closed) to blow small leaves, fuzz, and small debris out onto the dash
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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Located in Snellville, Georgia
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thewolfe
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Re: heating system?

Post by thewolfe »

There are foam seals connecting all the plastic pieces together. If they have never been replaced then chances are they have turned to powder and you could be leaking where they meet. Also there is a plastic flapper vent in the middle in front of the rear seat. If that is broken/missing/leaking you could be losing flow to the front.
Nate Wolfe
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Akinon93
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Re: heating system?

Post by Akinon93 »

i have thoroughly cleaned the entire ventilation system. all foam seals (as well as the collar) has been replaced, along with new hoses from clarks earlier this year. not sure if it's running at all 3 speeds.

i'll put it another way, with the main oval hose that goes to the main duct off of the blower motor, turning the motor on full blast, and sticking my hand against the motor opening, i felt extremely little air flow. comparable to maybe say one of those cheap battery operated hand fans you get for a few bucks at the dollar store.

so motor isn't very good to begin with

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Re: heating system?

Post by terribleted »

You can check to see if it is getting high speed fairly easily. Select high speed with switch at dash and operate the motor. Observe motor speed. Next turn off the motor at the dash and run a wire from Batt+ to the plug connection on the motor. Observe motor speed. If it is the same then switch and heater motor speed resistor are good (at least on high). If not there is a switch or speed resistor issue. Of course if the motor runs slow when it is hot wired the motor has issues.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
CorsaCharlie
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Re: Replacing heating ducts on a '65?

Post by CorsaCharlie »

I'm replacing the 4" heater duct hoses on my '65 Monza convert, and need to "hang" them away from the axles, starter, etc.
I'll wrap the driver side to insulate it from the starter, but where do the hangers attach to the body.
I don't see any holes where they would have been in its former life?

Also, are the Clark's hoses the right length or do they need to be cut down to fit before installing?
It seems the "oval" fan output hose is too long, but I could "accordion" it up to make it shorter.

Are there are any photos or diagrams of how to route these hoses? I see small diagram in Clark's catalog, but they don't seem to show much?

Thanks!
Charlie
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bbodie52
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Re: heating system?

Post by bbodie52 »

My earlier post in this thread (above) contains a series of attachments (as listed here) and a link that may help you. A sample of one of the illustrations in the 1965 Corvair Assembly Manual attachment is displayed below. All of the attachments are in Adobe Reader (.pdf) format. If you have not downloaded those attachments yet you may want to scroll up to that earlier post and download them.
bbodie52 wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:09 am

Everything you ever wanted to know about the heater electrical control...

Heater Fan Selector Switch Electrical
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=9252

:chevy:
ATTACHMENTS
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - HEATER CONTROLS AND DUCTS.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - HEATER CONTROLS AND DUCTS
(3.05 MiB) Downloaded 10 times
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 15 - HEATER.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 15 - HEATER
(4.38 MiB) Downloaded 8 times
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 12 - CHASSIS ELECTRICAL.pdf
1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 12 - CHASSIS ELECTRICAL
(6.99 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
Corvair Maintenance - Engine Fume Odor Diagnosis.pdf
Corvair Maintenance - Engine Fume Odor Diagnosis
(472.19 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Left-click image to enlarge for detailed viewing...
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - Heater & Defroster Hoses
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - Heater & Defroster Hoses
More detailed Corvair wiring diagrams for a variety of model years can be found using this link...

CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968

The link below will provide you with a list of useful websites that are Corvair-related. Some of the links will lead you to an extensive technical library that will allow you to download shop manuals and other technical references in Adobe Reader format at no cost. There is also a link that will help you to locate nearby CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters. While the Corvair Forum can be very helpful as you work on your Corvair, having local friends and contacts in your region who are knowledgeable about the Corvair can also be very helpful. These family-friendly CORSA chapters often offer picnics, group scenic drives, technical training and assistance, car shows, and competition events that can greatly enhance your enjoyment of Corvair ownership. You will also find a list of essential Corvair parts suppliers. Clark's Corvair Parts is the biggest and oldest Corvair supplier in the world. You will find a link that can provide you with a series of videos that amount to a tour of the Clark's Corvair Parts facilities. I think you will be amazed at the quality of the reproduction components they offer — particularly the interior carpeting and re-upholstery items. Parts suppliers such as this truly make our Corvair hobby possible.

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007

:dontknow: I would like to encourage you to expand on your earlier posts and tell us more about yourself. If you can describe your personal assessment of your mechanical skills and abilities, that would help a lot. Members of the Corvair Forum love to be helpful in assisting other Corvair owners with technical support and advice, but it helps a lot if we have some understanding of your technical background and mechanical abilities, Corvair-related knowledge, etc. Also, do you have a garage to work in and hand tools, jack stands and a floor jack, etc. to support Corvair maintenance and restoration projects? Helping us to know more about you will help us to write comments to you that are tailored to your needs and experience. Knowing your location is also useful, because knowing where you live can sometimes suggest possibilities. If you can post some photographs of your Corvair we would love to see your car, too.

:welcome:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
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Re: Replacing heating ducts on a '65?

Post by terribleted »

CorsaCharlie wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:43 am I'm replacing the 4" heater duct hoses on my '65 Monza convert, and need to "hang" them away from the axles, starter, etc.
I'll wrap the driver side to insulate it from the starter, but where do the hangers attach to the body.
I don't see any holes where they would have been in its former life?

Also, are the Clark's hoses the right length or do they need to be cut down to fit before installing?
It seems the "oval" fan output hose is too long, but I could "accordion" it up to make it shorter.

Are there are any photos or diagrams of how to route these hoses? I see small diagram in Clark's catalog, but they don't seem to show much?

Thanks!
Charlie
Clark's 4"round hoses are longer than they need to be. They need to be cut to fit. You do not want them stretched but you do not want them so compressed that they are pushing out sideways where they curve either. Remember that the powertrain moves some during operation relative to the body so there must be some slack. There are or were holes and hangers mounted from the factory. I have had issues finding them sometimes as well. Best I can tell they were not totally consistent. If you have purchased replacement hose hangers from Clark's install the hose thru the hanger and position the upper end to the heater box. Position the hanger so that it will hold the hose away from axle, starter etc. Look closely at flanges back of floor pan etc. for evidence of an old existing hole for mounting, you might find one. If not you can always drill a hole where needed to hold the hanger where it will do its job. Clark's sells an original style foam protective cover for the hose that runs past the starter. After situating the hanger you then install the upper end of the hose and route the hose to the engine cutting it shorter as necessary for a good fit and clearance.

I do not recall normally cutting the oval hose although it might be necessary. Some compression during install will not hurt it.

The only diagrams I am aware of are on page 15-3 of your 1965 GM Corvair chassis shop manual and in the 65 assembly manual (shown above). these diagrams are essentially the same ones.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
64powerglide
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Re: heating system?

Post by 64powerglide »

The LM heaters are a bit different that the EM's but it should put out all the heat you need. I'm in Michigan & drive year round & last year I blocked off one hose from the engine & once the interior heats up I have to run the fan on low. No problem with the defroster either!
64Powerglide, Jeff Phillips

Kalamazoo, Mi..
CorsaCharlie
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Re: LM Heating system hoses and hangers

Post by CorsaCharlie »

I bought these 4" hangers from Home Depot for about $1.50 each.
Here's where I chose to hang the ducts away from axle and starter, after I found existing holes as shown in these pix ...
Driver Side Duct Hanger:
There was an existing clip above the axle on the driver's side that I unscrewed and used to attach a duct hanger:
Driver Side Duct Hanger 3.JPG
Driver Side Duct Hanger 6.JPG
Driver Side Duct Hanger 5.JPG
Passenger Side Duct Hanger:
Old Passenger Side Duct was Rubbing on Axle:
Old Passenger Side Duct Rubbing on Axle.JPG
Passenger Side Duct Hanger 1.JPG
This Passenger Side Duct Hanger was fastened using an existing hole in the far right corner of the Passenger Side of the engine compartment:
Passenger Side Duct Hanger Bolt 2.JPG
I then painted the axle shaft to see any scraping better after driving a while?

(There is just some dust and dirt on the ducts that I've since cleaned off)
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