Philosophical Starter Question

[NMVair]

First off I am fishing for optimism here.
I just got my car back from a lot of suspension work and washed the engine and must have got some electrical part wet because it was really hard starting. So hard starting in fact that the normal occasional grinding from my starter increased upon cranking and then just went to complete grinding. Really bad. Upon removal of starter I found that the cone was cracked in two places. I am certainly no mechanic but I should be deemed one after removing the starter. "MY LORD!!!!"
In any case i assume that this crack prevents the Bendix gear from engaging properly into the ring gear and just grinds instead of starts the car.
Right?
That is my first question-probably pretty obvious.
But also I have reviewed some posts on here and am scared for my pocket book as i have already spent a fortune on the car and NOW read that the ring gear could be coming off the torque converter as i have a 1964 Monza with a 1968 140 with about 65 K miles and of course a Powerglide.
I am a pessimist and my intuition tells me that this might be the case. There is a transmission leak that I was now going to address but then this happened. Its kind of greasy under there so of course i fear the worse that the torque converter is now leaking and ready to fall out or explode or worse!!!
See how i am.
But there is reason for some one to tell me that replacing the cone on the starter and reinstalling it will fix everything.
Optimism!
Here is the rest of the story;
The starter has always made a grinding noise occasionally but always started the car, no big woop. I inspected the ring gear and it seems to be fine-not as mangled as pictures i have seen on other posts with the same situation. And the final reason for optimism is that the cone didn't completely break off......it only cracked...I hypothesized that one crack has always existed and last nights cranking created the other crack and so it was a fatigue thing not a torque-converter-pull-my-hair-out,-blow-my-head-off scenario.
So here are some pictures of the situation. Please tell me what you all think....Thanks in advance for your input.
Also I can't tell if the Bendix is worn and I guess welding the cone is out of the question, right? (I can afford the 17 bucks I suppose for the new cone but the car is up in the air and I would like to fix it sooner) (What I dread is reinstalling the starter. Is there a trick or a drug I could take to calm the anxiety that task produces?)(I know I know, I already see a therapist, I mean come on I own a Corvair)

[terribleted]

This is a common failure. There may or may not be damage to the ring gear...so like you mentioned look at it closely. The most common repair is replacement of the starter with a used or rebuilt unit. Replacement nose can also be done.

[NMVair]

THANK YOU!! I realize i could have asked my question in 2 or 3 sentences. I wish I could be as brief and succinct as you. Dave

[64powerglide]

You can get a starter nose cone & a drive-Bendix from Clark's for about $35.00 plus shipping. About the leaking, probably seals. My 64 leaks a bit but I just keep adding fluid until I can have it checked out. I did put some new seals in this past winter but it's still leaking. Your Bendix gear looks like the one I replaced, "bad" now she starts fine.

[NMVair]

I looked at the Bendix it looks ok to me but it seems like I thought that about another picture I saw where the owner said the Bendix was bad. as i said i am no mechanic.. I should replace it anyway. I have heard that those Bendix gears are more plentiful and can be had locally? Is there a cross reference number or anything? Its Sunday so the parts places are closed here and dealing with them regarding the Corvair is usually hard to accomplish.

[66vairguy]

Corvairs don't use a BENDIX drive to engage the gear.. What you may be referring to is an overrun clutch. Once the engine starts the clutch prevents the engine flywheel from over driving the starter, basically the clutch locks to turn the engine and slips when the engine drives the ring gear faster than the starter. If the clutch won't slip in one direction, then replace it or risk a starter coming apart. They rarely fail, but if the gear teeth are damaged you should replace it.

The nose cones do break from age, but a break can be a symptom of loose flywheel rivets (manual transmission) or a broken flex plate or ring gear on an automatic.

If the starter nose cone breaks again it's time to drop the power train and pull the engine off the transaxle.

We had a guy in our club that broke a couple starter nose cones and he just kept replacing the starter. Then his car locked up. Turns out the mechanic didn't torque his pressure plate bolts (pressure plate has the ring gear on it) and the pressure plate finally came loose enough to destroyed the starter, bellhousing, and lock up the engine. Lucky it happened when he was stopped at a light and not on the open road at speed.

[NMVair]

Thanks for the insight and the correction. So I assume the gear that engages into the ring gear is attached to the over run clutch and comes as a unit. I ask because the gear does slip in one direction but I feel it would be prudent to replace the gear.

[NMVair]

I will look and see what Clark's offers

[64powerglide]

Wonder why Clark's sells a DRIVE - BENDIX. The drive - bendix is actuated by the solenoid magnet & the lever engages the bendix to the ring gear. When you release the key that cuts the power to the magnet & the spring pushes the lever & drive bendix back away from the ring gear.

[tiger13]

When I was having so much trouble with my starter, and having to take it in and out so often, it got to the point I could install it in about 5 minutes. Not a job that I could say I wanted to become proficient at to say the least, but .......

[66vairguy]

Wonder why Clark's sells a DRIVE - BENDIX. The drive - bendix is actuated by the solenoid magnet & the lever engages the bendix to the ring gear. When you release the key that cuts the power to the magnet & the spring pushes the lever & drive bendix back away from the ring gear.

Ther term Bendix is like Kleenex - it's become a general term.

Bendix originally developed an automatic MECHANICAL starter gear engagement to replace the mechanical floor pedal. Ford in particular used it for many years. See WIKI explanation --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix_drive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Early on it was common on some GM cars to use a floor pedal to engage the starter gear and and it's clutch (usually next to the gas pedal so both could be pushed at once). When the starter gear was "pushed" by the pedal linkage into the ring gear contacts would close to turn the stater. This was often called a "clashless" system since the Bendix units turn the gear as it meshed with the ring gear leading to noise and wear.

A solenoid was added to the starter to engage the starter gear into the ring gear and eliminated the mechanical floor pedal. There is disagreement as to who implemented the starter solenoid to engage the starter gear into the ring gear, but DELCO gets most of the credit.

[64powerglide]

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix_drive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
This explanation of the bendix is not correct for the Corvair starter, it says the bendix-drive/pinion gear is spinning before it comes into contact with the ring gear but the starter motor does not get power until the pinion gear is in contact with the ring gear. The lever pushes the pinion/drive-bendix into place just before the lever makes the electrical contact for the motor inside the cap on the solenoid. Guess that's why they call it a drive-bendix, that definition would apply to a starter that does not have an external solenoid. Were on the same page here it's just generic term as you stated. But now NMVair should have a better understanding how the solenoid & starter motor work together.

[tiger13]

Here is a question for the group.
In the picture of the diagram of the Clark's catalog for the exploded view of the starter motor, part #26 is a spring, that goes behind the drive gear. On the replacement starter that I got for my 1963 that turned out to be a 1960, and I had to take the nose piece off of it to use it for my engine, it had that spring on it, BUT, the starter that came off of the 1963 engine did NOT have one. I did not put it back on and am now experiencing random grinding before engagement. Should this spring be on ALL the starters? or is it just a coincidence and the drive going bad?
PS, the reason I left it out when I changed over the nose cone, was the drive was VERY far forward with it installed when I tried it, meaning, it looked like it was almost as far forward as if the solenoid was engaged!, less about a half inch. And I thought, No, this just cannot be right.

[66vairguy]

Here is a question for the group.
In the picture of the diagram of the Clark's catalog for the exploded view of the starter motor, part #26 is a spring, that goes behind the drive gear. On the replacement starter that I got for my 1963 that turned out to be a 1960, and I had to take the nose piece off of it to use it for my engine, it had that spring on it, BUT, the starter that came off of the 1963 engine did NOT have one. I did not put it back on and am now experiencing random grinding before engagement. Should this spring be on ALL the starters? or is it just a coincidence and the drive going bad?
PS, the reason I left it out when I changed over the nose cone, was the drive was VERY far forward with it installed when I tried it, meaning, it looked like it was almost as far forward as if the solenoid was engaged!, less about a half inch. And I thought, No, this just cannot be right.

There are a number of "guesses" as to why the extra spring between the gear assy. and motor windings was on the earlier cars. It is correctly assumed it helps the solenoid move the gear assy. a little off the resting position, BUT WHY? I think I have a plausible answer. ONLY the automatic transmission cars have a rubber seal in the nose cone of the starter. The clutch shell of the gear assy. rests against the rubber seal while the starter is off. This was done because the Powerglide torque converter bellhousing is open for cooling (only FG's got a transmission oil cooler). This open bellhousing lets in a lot of dirt and water (in the rain) so the starter needed the rubber seal to keep water out. You'll notice the gear clutch assy. of the starter tends to stick slightly to the nose cone rubber seal - hence the spring to help. That's MY guess - others are free to comment.

The extra spring was not used on the manual transmission cars (from the factory), but now with the new weaker solenoids some folks are using the extra spring (when you can find them) on the manual transmission cars. Beware!! I tried this and the weaker return spring in the new solenoid would not push the the gear/clutch assy. completely back to the resting position and the starter gear was being clipped by the ring gear with the starter off.

Yeah I know - retired folks have too much time to play with things - LOL!

[64powerglide]

If you don't replace all the worn parts you will break another nose cone. Give Clark's a call & ask about that spring. The gears are real close when in the resting position so when you hit the starter the gears mesh before the starter motor starts to spin. I thought the same thing when I replaced mine, I was worried about cranking it over but it worked as it is supposed to. Now a year and a half later it still starting. Good luck with it.

[NMVair]

Thanks that's the kind of post I want to hear a success story. While something is going on with my tranny, I am confident that the starter will be fine once I replace a bunch of parts.. I will replace all of the parts. I think the gear and clutch assembly includes the spring, right?
Now what I need is a clear cut way to remove and reinstall the starter. The only thing that got me thru it was that I had done it before on the old engine about 5 years ago.
But this time I kept thinking that I removed something more than just the heater duct. I think last time i removed the tranny lever. Lets face it, The top bolt is the bitch. I have a hard time reaching above and around the starter in the tight confines to remove that bolt. I think I managed it with a shorty 3/8 drive racthet. Once i removed it I took n on a journey way over towards the tire and then found a tight fit to drop it down from....
Any formulas out there for starter R&R?
Thanks Dave