Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Non-Traditionally Powered Corvairs
User avatar
Scott Howey
Site Admin
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:21 pm
Location: Hesperia, CA

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Scott Howey » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:53 am

Nice work Dave. :tu:
Scott

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:06 pm

More progress...

Got help from neighbor last night to push the car down the driveway and back to get it turned around into the garage in prep for the engine install.

-Brake lines now attached to the hubs.
-Mongo V8 springs installed. I was barely able to compress the springs enough to get the shocks installed since the chassis weighs so little with the drivetrain out. Where's Fat Albert when you need him to sit on a fender for you?
-Double checked my plan to reinstall the power package (easier than it came out I hope).

My plan on the install is to place the engine solidly in the center of the garage floor (using the stand in photo). The stand keeps the engine very stable and is about 1" higher than the engine will sit once the chassis is loaded down. After placing the engine (hoist to the rear so I can roll it straight backwards without having to maneuver around the engine) I'll extend the boom on the lift to max length over the top on the engine. I'll then roll the chassis backwards until the bumper just touches the engine. A chain goes around the rear of the engine compartment and with that attached I lift the chassis up until it clears the top of the engine. I’ll then roll the hoist backwards until the chassis clears the engine. Next I’ll lower the chassis over the engine.

Now I'll have to remove the rear wheels so I can lower the chassis enough to get the frame mounts below the height of the engine mounts (remember that the chassis on wheels and unloaded is much higher than the engine mounts at this point). Now I should be able to lower the chassis further and then roll it back another inch or two until the engine front mount locating pins engage the chassis mount holes. Once lined up I'll lift the body slightly until the mount finds its home and then install the front motor mount bolts.

If I make it this far I’ll place the chassis on jack stands, remove the hoist and complete the rear mount install. After that I can then lift the entire chassis and engine as an assembly, remove the temporary engine stand, install the rear wheels and then lower it all back to the ground.

I know most people aren't following this post too closely but I needed to write this down anyway since it helps me think through the process.

This long post has me thinking that my idea create a removable rear chassis section on my other V8 is not just something only Corvair racers find handy.
Attachments
P3220004.JPG
P3220003.JPG
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
Vair-8
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:24 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Vair-8 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:34 pm

Great planing gives great results. Am following your thread and amazed with your skills. GOOD JOB!!!
Charles Troutman Sr.
Charles Troutman Jr.
Glendale, AZ

66 Vair-8
68 Vair-8
65 Convertible
Corvair Society Of America Member "Corsa"
V-8 Registry Member

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:41 am

Well the engine install went pretty smoothly. Took about 1.5 hours working slowly and carefully. The rear of the engine will be getting a new crosss support but for now it is securely hanging off of the old (bad) support so I could roll the car into the garage for the night. I'm not sure if I'll use the good support from my other V8 chassis or if I'll go ahead and take the time now to design and weld up a better system.

More progress pics...
P3230022.JPG
Engine on floor and car being lifted up and over.
P3230027.JPG
Lining up the locate pins with the front mount before lifting the car up to meet the engine.
P3230028.JPG
Tight clearance on top but it just cleared.
P3230030.JPG
Engine in final position but hanging on temporary rear mount.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:10 am

Short weekend for me but I did get some time on the project.

I made up a few wood templates to simulate the new rear motor mount proposal. I have the drawings out today for quotes on laser or waterjet cutting the 1/4 flat plate. The wood "box beam" in the pics is used to simulate the 2.5 x 2.5 steel tube that will carry the load out to the chassis rails through a motor mount on each side. The engine is offset to the passenger side in the compartment so I have to train myself that it's okay to look "wrong" when it is sitting there.

The temporary old beam and supports you see in the photos (attached to the transmission rear and helped with C-clamps) will all be gone once the new support is completed.
Attachments
mount-1.JPG
Home Depot hardboard used for mock-up purposes.
.
.
.
mount-2.JPG
Bubble level across valve covers and a tape measure used to position engine.
.
.
.
mount-3.JPG
Also buillt a wood box to simulate the square steel tube cross beam I'll need. I hot glued the assemblies together including a few gussets for strength.
.
.
.
mount-4.JPG
Crude mock-up on driver's side shows one idea to integrate a rubbber isolator mount as cross beam meest support coming up from the frame rails.
.
.
.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
Vair-8
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:24 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Vair-8 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:20 pm

Nice!! water jet expensive?
Charles Troutman Sr.
Charles Troutman Jr.
Glendale, AZ

66 Vair-8
68 Vair-8
65 Convertible
Corvair Society Of America Member "Corsa"
V-8 Registry Member

User avatar
reidmier
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Washington, UT

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by reidmier » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:30 pm

azdave wrote:I know most people aren't following this post too closely but I needed to write this down anyway since it helps me think through the process.
You'd be surprised at how many people are closely following this thread. I print the pictures/posts and put them in my Toro notebook. I may have to build one myself if I can't talk you into selling me yours when it's complete. ::-):
Last edited by reidmier on Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reid M.
Washington, UT.
'65 Monza 110 PG

http://www.hacoa.org/
http://www.vegasvairs.com/

User avatar
flat6_musik
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:03 am
Location: Hesperia, CA

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by flat6_musik » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:02 pm

Man, that project looks like fun.....

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:25 pm

I picked up the mount adapter plate today but they forgot to do one hole for some reason. I decided to take a further discount on the deal and just drill it myself (as opposed to waiting over an hour until their lunch break was over for a redo). The flat plate and three gussets cost me $22 including the A36 steel plate they provided. It's through a vendor at work so I get a discount I'm sure. I supply them with a .dxf drawing and I can use their material or my own.

Today I also picked up a 5' section of 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 x 3/16" square steel tube for the main rear beam and also some misc. scrap pieces to mock up the mounts. The actual motor mounts I have picked won't be here until Monday so I will not get too far this weekend.

Hopefully in the next few posts you'll see how this all comes together.

Energy Suspension interlocking safety mounts.
Image

Image
Attachments
P3310002.JPG
Oops. One hole not cut. The smaller horizontal slots are for temporarily attaching the plate to the main rear
beam with 4 1/4-20 bolts. Once aligned properly the plate will be welded to the beam.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:41 am

More progress.

The new mounts arrived and were about 1/8" taller than the drawing specs. No big problem so far. After a few hours of work I have the two frame rail pads tacked together and press fit into place. They will be through bolted or welded in place later. The cross beam had been cut to length, tapered and drilled for the new mounts. I also temporarily bolted the support plate to the cross beam and as of late last night the engine is now hanging entirely on the new system and the old temporary mount is gone. I am checking to see if the mounts compress a little bit over the next few days before I finish welding the assemblies permanently. The main cross beam ended up a little higher than I planned (taller motor mounts plus the need to weld nuts inside the rail pads )but I still think I have plenty of room to rotate the distributor around to fine tune the timing (vacuum advance touches the beam).
Attachments
mount-1.JPG
Right side cross beam end, motor mount and frame rail pad. Old temporary mount still seen in left of photo.
.
.
.
mount-2.JPG
Old mount removed and engine wieght fully on new system.
.
.
.
mount-3.JPG
Top view. So much more room than old design and no more flexing either.
.
.
.
mount-17.JPG
Things will now sit a few day to see if the polyeurethane mounts settle slightly. These mounts have interlocking metal joints to prevent an all-out failure (unlikely in this configuation).
.
.
.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
Trip
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: Lake Ariel, PA

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Trip » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:10 am

I'm really enjoying your thread AZDave, when you dig in to do it right you do it RIGHT! This is some very impressive looking work. I've never yet had the opportunity to see a Toro conversion in person, only kelmark and crown cars.

I saw a v-8 Corvair on the internet once that had a standard looking interior with back seat (which really appealed to me!), it makes sense to me that this would be the conversion that would allow that... is that the case? If so I might even look into a toro car myself one day. I also get the impression that you only have an automatic transmission available with this conversion, no manual trans option.... is that correct as well?
Ray "Trip" Rodriguez III
Gouldsboro, PA
66 Corsa 140 coupe
65 Corsa 180 Turbocharged coupe
64 Monza Convertible
61 Air conditioned Monza coupe (Missy's)
See them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydc7txrf

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:27 am

Grymm wrote:I'm really enjoying your thread AZDave, when you dig in to do it right you do it RIGHT! This is some very impressive looking work. I've never yet had the opportunity to see a Toro conversion in person, only kelmark and crown cars.

I saw a v-8 Corvair on the internet once that had a standard looking interior with back seat (which really appealed to me!), it makes sense to me that this would be the conversion that would allow that... is that the case? If so I might even look into a toro car myself one day. I also get the impression that you only have an automatic transmission available with this conversion, no manual trans option.... is that correct as well?
Both of my Toro conversions were purchased with the back seats long gone. It does make it so much easier for access. You certainly can do the Toro setup and still have a back seat but it is a very tight fit with a small bump out required for the water pump pully. Check out greybeard's ride for what that looks like. He has an excellent Toro conversion.

I have no interest in keeping a back seat in this car but it does have storage behind the seat and I still have lots of room to move the front seats way back for comfort. When my other V8 is rebuilt I may put a back seat in place but that will be determined later.

The FWD Toronados and Eldorados of that era never came with a manual tranny. All used the TH425 3-speed up through the mid 70's or so. Then they switched to the TH325 which is not as strong but I think offers an overdrive. I lke the automatic and of course will run a shift kit and custom slap shifter for full manual shifting if I desire.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
Greybeard
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:47 pm
Location: Sequim, WA

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by Greybeard » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:14 am

Looking good, Dave. Very clean and well thought out. The distributor in mine hits too, and I've had to spend the extra time getting it to drop in right. Are you going to, or are you, using a Pertronics?
Again, nice work!
Mike
'66 Corsa, 455 Olds
http://greybeard.shutterfly.com/
Mike

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:19 pm

Greybeard wrote:Looking good, Dave. Very clean and well thought out. The distributor in mine hits too, and I've had to spend the extra time getting it to drop in right. Are you going to, or are you, using a Pertronics?
Again, nice work!
Mike
Thanks!
Both of my cars were already converted to later model GM HEI untis so I'll stick with those. From looking at previous photos of this engine (while still mounted in the other Corvair chassis) I'm pretty sure I'll have room to fine tune the timing without any problems.

Progress slowed this weekend on the V8 by the need to rebuild the rear wheel bearings of my daily driver stock Corsa. I've enjoyed learning that process but it had a few challenges. I'll probably write up summary of that in another thread.
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
azdave
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:27 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by azdave » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:04 am

No new pics yet but more progress of sorts. I've been down with the stomach flu over the weekend and home from work a few days earlier in the week. You know you are really sick when you stay home from work on a beautful spring day and can't even drag yourself out to the garage to look at your project. Not eating or drinking much for 4 days sure make a great start to a crash diet regime.

Anyway, I ran into a lillte trouble with the axles/diff installation but nothing serious, just time consuming. The axles on this car were custom built with Corvair outer U-joints and Toronado inner CV joints. Everyone told me the Toro diffs from 66-75 were all drop-in swappable but I found out that is not completely true. You have to swap out the diffs, axles, brackets and hangers all as a package. I wanted to use a spare 3.07 ratio I had and save the 3.21 for my next V8 but it turns out that unless I want to find someone to make a new set of custom axles I must put the 3.21 diff back into the car. I can still make a change back to the 3.07 in the future if I really wanted to but it would take a good solid weekend to swap all the parts after buying new axles.

Since the power package was installed and the diff weighs over 100 lbs I had to make a custom cradle for my floor jack so I could remove the 3.07 diff and install the 3.21. After 2-3 days of cradle building (made a universal one to fit both diffs), cleaning and painting the 3.21, etc. I got the diff installed.

Next trick was finding a CV joint boot for the right axle since it was torn when I got the car. In 1966 Toronados used a one-year-only CV boot that no one makes anymore. I was able to find a nice silicone rubber boot from Dorman 614-004 that I cut and modified. That should do the trick but we'll have to see how durable it is. The axles are very short and run at steep angles when the suspension flexes so the boots get a real workout.

Tonight the axles should actually be bolted in place. This is the final step to confirm the correct placement of the power package left-to-right. Toro engines do not sit centered in the vehicle and I have no way to know if the original builder changed the offset dimensions to accomodate the short halfshafts. If it all measures out correctly then this weekend I will complete the final task of permanently welding all of the new rear mount pieces together.

This is the only pic I have for now.
This shows the left CV joint boot (the side that doesn't need repair) and how the boot is captured on the large OD by two interlocking rings that press fit together. I was able cut a new boot to fit inside and press them together. No outer clamp is needed on the large OD as it is sealed with a large O-ring under the lip and the metal ring is secured by swedging the outer ring in a few places. I bought 100% silicone boots and hope they will last a long time. The small OD is a very tight fit so only a regular Zip-ty is needed to seal that end.
Attachments
CV_left.jpg
Dave W. located in Gilbert, AZ
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed

User avatar
jftl
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Toro Corvair Project Thread azdave

Unread post by jftl » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:55 am

Dave,

This is some absolutely AMAZING work you are doing. Can't wait to see it done, hopefully in person =).

-Kevin
1965 Covair Corsa w/ 4 barrel conversion intake, Holley 390 CFM, and custom cherry bomb exhaust. "Joe'd"!

Post Reply

Return to “V8's - V6's - and...?”