Electric Corvair

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DeadHorse
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Electric Corvair

Post by DeadHorse »

I am interested to know if anyone has ever thought about or completed an electric conversion for a Corvair? Seems to me that they would be a great conversion host.

Thoughts?


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chris
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by chris »

If you look on Google, there have been a few, even Chevrolet itself. A group here in KC called MindDrive is actually doing one. A couple students from Nebraska also converted one last year.


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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by bbodie52 »

There was an attempt to produce an electric Corvair that seemed to be doing well in development and in an initial offering. But the practicality of a Corvair that was VERY expensive (initial build cost plus an expensive battery pack), no practical passenger compartment heating system, and very limited travel distances with very significant delays for each recharge seemed to kill all interest. To me the commercial hybrid approach seems to be the most-practical, permitting a small gasoline or other fossil fuel engine to combine forces with motors and batteries to extend range and fuel mileage. The current available technology to permit an all-electric car has very limited usefulness.

Recharging systems source power voltages can be increased to 220 VAC or even 440 VAC (the latter not available in home residences) to shorten recharge times. But can you imagine the daily evening load on the nationwide power grid if everyone had to plug in one or two electric cars every evening when the got home from work??? Think about the high loads placed on local cities during a heat wave when everyone turns on their home air conditioning system! The load placed on the grid throughout the year if everyone switched from gasoline to electric cars would be a disaster!!

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Electrovair III - High Voltage Hot Rods
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HighVoltageHotRods wrote:Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:51 am
Corvair of the Month February 2013

Electrovair III by High Voltage Hot Rods

1966 Corvair Monza Convertable
8" AC Motor
21kwh Lithium Ion Phosphate Battery Pack
Owner: Larry Mills
Created by High Voltage Hot Rods.
Designer: Andrew McClary



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Below are some images that I saved from this project back in 2012. More on their Facebook page, but the project seems to have died.
Attachments
Aluminum Machine Cutting ShopBot (2).jpg
Aluminum Machine Cutting ShopBot.jpg
Battery boxes have been fabricated and the mount for the speed controller. We will be starting the wiring soon..jpg
Brant hard at work removing the old gas engine..jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 1.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 2.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 3.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 4.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 5.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 6.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 7.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 8.jpg
ElectroVair - In Progress 9.jpg
ElectroVair Adaptor Plate to Mate Electric Motor to the Corvair Torque Convertor (MDF Mockup).jpg
ElectroVair Adaptor Plate to Mate Electric Motor to the Corvair Torque Convertor.jpg
Electrovair II (1).jpg
Electrovair II (2).jpg
Electrovair III.jpg
ElectroVair in Development.jpg
Electrovair Power Train (1).jpg
Electrovair Power Train (2).jpg
Electrovair Power Train Installed - Awaiting Rear Motor Mount.jpg
Electrovair Power Train Installed (2).JPG
Electrovair Power Train Installed.jpg
ElectroVair Technician at Daytona Beach Raceway.jpg
ElectroVair Think Tank.jpg
ElectroVair Trunk Modifications to Accept Battery Box.jpg
Electrovir Power Cell Example.jpg
Finished logo cut in aluminum.jpg
High Voltage Hot Rods iPhone Case.jpg
Shipment of 180ah Cells for ElectroVair III.jpg
Brad Bodie
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gregpenn
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by gregpenn »

Nice & interesting photos.
66vairguy
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 66vairguy »

There is a place in San Diego, CA that converts old VW bugs to electric. They've been successful. http://www.zelectricmotors.com/our-story/

This topic came up on the Corvair Center forum last year and it was very clear that the "old" folks didn't like the "electric" cars. The younger crowd was enthusiastic because they liked the old car "look", but didn't want to deal with unknown drivetrain problems and not surprisingly more than one person said "I like old cars, but when they run they STINK". Yes old cars produce a lot of fumes that are not emitted by newer cars with all the emissions controls.

The other deterrent for the young crowd is the cost of rebuilding a Corvair power train for those with no mechanical skills- Engine $4,000 - $5,000, trans and dif $400 - $1,500. Of course finding a good Corvair mechanic is a challenge in many parts of the country.

Like it or not - electric conversions may keep Corvairs (and other old cars) on the road in the future for fair weather fun cruising.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by Jerry Whitt »

Last year (2016) there was an electric Rampside at the Fan Belt Toss in Palm Springs. Looked really good and seemed to drive pretty well.


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66vairguy
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 66vairguy »

If that's the Rampside I'm familiar with, the fellow drives it to work on a regular basis. He's had it electrified for many years and a year or so ago upgraded to newer (and smaller) batteries.
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LesMiii
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by LesMiii »

I have owned 9 Corvairs over 18 years. I love the way they drive.
In my experience, they had 4 issues I would like to have seen improved: Too heavy in back, too light in front, could get hot, no AC (although my 62 had it). ALL of these issues are addressed by having an electric Vair.
They have SO much room available in the engine compartment, trunk and gas tank area, they seem like a perfect candidate.The styling of the 65-69 holds up today. The gas filler lid is a great location for a charge port. With today's smaller, more powerful batteries and motors, it seems like a relatively easy conversion. A Corvair with even better weight distribution and power would be thrilling, quiet & eco-friendly. No more ethanol-ridden gas (which classic carbs don't like), oil changes, fan belts, fuel pumps etc. I'd drive one for 30 years.
Someone, somewhere HAS to be doing this. (Frees up more Corvair engines for those who need them).
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by bbodie52 »

:welcome2: :wave: Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

I also thought it was an interesting, but ultimately a failed attempt. No vehicle passenger compartment heater (without rapidly draining the limited battery resource), and certainly no A/C. Only short range on even the largest available battery pack. High cost to build, and adding batteries (a necessary item) made it a cost-prohibitive project. It would have served as a VERY EXPENSIVE, unique, short range, local travel Corvair-based grocery getter. The project simply faded from view as impractical.

Like many alternative energy concepts, they turn out to be wishful thinking — but the technology simply has not been invented to make it work. A total electric car has very little usefulness because of limited range, and most require a lot of high current energy to recharge them in a reasonable amount of time. if everybody tried to switch to an electric car, the national electricity power grid could not handle the load. Solar and wind power has low capacity, low energy power production that could not support a large demand on the power grid. Only fossil fuels or nuclear power production can produce the industrial level amount of energy that would be needed to recharge millions of electric cars each evening when people returned home and needed an overnight recharge to venture out again on the next workday. Long-distance daily travel is not workable with an electric car. They are basically limited to urban commuting and similar service only. Cars without a tailpipe (electric cars) translates into moving the tailpipe into centrally-located very large regional tailpipes (called electricity-generating power plants), and those plants would need to produce large quantities of electric energy to support the demand that would occur each day to recharge millions of electric cars. With currently available technology, only hydro-electric plants, nuclear plants, or plants powered by natural gas, coal, etc. can generate the needed energy.

Current technology can make electric cars work, but only in the form of hybrid vehicles that rely on batteries, electric motors, and small fossil fuel-powered engines to supplement the limited capacity batteries. Computer-managed powerplants in hybrid cars do work, and get good gas mileage, which can help in reducing the need for fossil fuels. But they do need fossil fuels to power the small engines to make the concept work.

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Brad Bodie
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joelsplace
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by joelsplace »

A/C and heat are very possible in electric cars. It seems like around one in 20 cars I see on the road around here are Tesla. Maybe not that high but it sure seems like it.
I hate electric cars they feel slow, the range is poor and the batteries are crazy expensive.
The grid could handle a whole bunch of them as long as the chargers are smart enough to wait for off peak times.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 66vairguy »

joelsplace wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:37 am A/C and heat are very possible in electric cars. It seems like around one in 20 cars I see on the road around here are Tesla. Maybe not that high but it sure seems like it.
I hate electric cars they feel slow, the range is poor and the batteries are crazy expensive.
The grid could handle a whole bunch of them as long as the chargers are smart enough to wait for off peak times.
Hey Joel - Try a Tesla model 3 - A fellow gear head who has a sports car and a big Suburban 4X4 got his fiancee a new Tesla Model 3, not the top of the line model S, but the smaller car with the standard powertrain. I asked him how he liked it and he said "It's great, quiet, and handles well. I didn't think I'd like it, but the car is fast! She only has to plug it in once a week to charge it up to get to work and back".

It's not 2000 anymore, electric cars have advanced considerably in two decades.

Tesla just announced they've invested in a China company to make batteries for the Tesla built in China. The batteries will last longer and extend the range. They are designed to go 100K miles and when the car is scrapped the batteries will be used for industrial power storage from solar panels to reduce the initial battery cost.

European countries are banning gasoline and diesel vehicles in the cities between 2035 and 2040. In China they are going to electric vehicles ASAP to reduce the reliance on imported oil and their government is putting money into battery technology. The U.S. government better get off it's butt and help with battery development or our auto industry will end up at a disadvantage. Tesla predicted in the WSJ that within a decade they will produce an electric car that will cost less to sell versus an equivalent gasoline vehicle and have the same or better performance.

BTW - An electric converted Corvair could easily outrun a 180HP turbo Corvair and electric motor torque is immediate - no turbo lag.
Also GM has partnered with a company that makes an electric powertrain the has the same shape as a SBC engine so it can bolt in to a 60's or 70's GM car with few modifications. The electric powertrain just may keep the old car hobby going with the younger generation.

Will I miss the Corvair drivetrain sounds, yes. I won't miss oil leaks, smelly exhaust, and gummed up carburetors when the car sits too long.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by bbodie52 »

Oil leaks? VITON cleared much of that problem.

Smelly Exhaust? Would a catalytic converter help? Otherwise, pretty much normal.

Gummed up carburetors? Perhaps time for a change to Electronic Fuel Injection and a distributorless (electronic computer-based timing contol) system.

With FAA-approved modern fuel control and FAA ignition, the engine is reliable enough for aircraft. The Corvair engine design works, with a good dose of modern fuel and ignition control.

I wish the total electric Corvair were possible. Dump the Chevrolet Volt. Bring up the Electric Corvair... ITS TIME! ::-):
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by joelsplace »

I'm well aware of the latest electric stuff on the market. I have a friend with the Tesla S with the ludicrous option. I realize it is fast but it doesn't feel fast and the traction control is over zealous and can't be turned off. I have another friend with a Z06 Corvette it is 10x more fun to drive and has unlimited range with 5 minute gas stops. If his wife only has to charge the car once a week she lives really close to work.
The above mentioned electric conversions that use the original power train aren't even in the same category for range and power. I can't imagine why anyone would do a conversion like that.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by 66vairguy »

The gasoline engine vehicle is certainly not going away in the next few decades, but as batteries improve, the electric car will become more dominate. Expect to see an electric Corvette or hybrid in the next few years. Porsche is offering electric cars as will other high performance marques.

I do like the sound of a gasoline engine, but for a daily driver I'm considering an electric. I no longer take long road trips in my daily driver as flying was faster (and things will get back to normal). The upside of an electric is no appointments to get the oil changed, no stops at gas stations, etc. For a local driver the electric car makes more sense now.
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by bbodie52 »

:goodpost:

You are right. Electric cars of today may fit very well into some lifestyles. For others (like me) who want more flexibility and long-distance options, but also want to reduce usage of fossil fuels and to explore the electric car option, I am seriously considering a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid, which seems to offer the best of both worlds. And when I want to go "old school", I have my Corvairs.

With the variety of powerplant options (conventional gasoline engine, hybrid vehicle, or total electric) available today, it is important that each buyer carefully research those options, ask questions, etc. in order to match technology with personal needs and realistic expectations. Technology will certainly improve the future of electric cars, and perhaps other options, such as hydrogen fuel cell-based electric vehicles, may be offered to the consumer someday.
How Do Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles Work?
Published Feb 25, 2015 Updated Mar 14, 2018


Fuel cell vehicles use hydrogen gas to power an electric motor. Unlike conventional vehicles which run on gasoline or diesel, fuel cell cars and trucks combine hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity, which runs a motor. Since they’re powered entirely by electricity, fuel cell vehicles are considered electric vehicles (“EVs”)—but unlike other EVs, their range and refueling processes are comparable to conventional cars and trucks.

Converting hydrogen gas into electricity produces only water and heat as a byproduct, meaning fuel cell vehicles don’t create tailpipe pollution when they’re driven. Producing the hydrogen itself can lead to pollution, including greenhouse gas emissions, but even when the fuel comes from one of the dirtiest sources of hydrogen, natural gas, today’s early fuel cell cars and trucks can cut emissions by over 30 percent when compared with their gasoline-powered counterparts. Future renewable fuel standards—such as the requirements currently in place in California—could make hydrogen even cleaner.

Because fuel cell vehicles are only beginning to enter the US market, interested drivers should ensure they live near hydrogen refueling stations.

Hydrogen fuel cell features
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles combine the range and refueling of conventional cars with the recreational and environmental benefits of driving on electricity.

Refueling a fuel cell vehicle is comparable to refueling a conventional car or truck; pressurized hydrogen is sold at hydrogen refueling stations, taking less than 10 minutes to fill current models. Some leases may cover the cost of refueling entirely. Once filled, the driving ranges of a fuel cell vehicle vary, but are similar to the ranges of gasoline or diesel-only vehicles (200-300 miles). Compared with battery-electric vehicles—which recharge their batteries by plugging in—the combination of fast, centralized refueling and longer driving ranges make fuel cells particularly appropriate for larger vehicles with long-distance requirements, or for drivers who lack plug-in access at home.

Like other EVs, fuel cell cars and trucks can employ idle-off, which shuts down the fuel cell at stop signs or in traffic. In certain driving modes, regenerative braking is used to capture lost energy and charge the battery.

Differences between fuel cell cars and other EVs
Battery electric vehicles run off an electric motor and battery. This offers them increased efficiency and, like fuel cell vehicles, allows them to drive emissions-free when the electricity comes from renewable sources. Unlike fuel cell cars and trucks, battery electric vehicles can use existing infrastructure to recharge, but must be plugged in for extended periods of time. Learn more about how battery electrics work.

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles are similar to battery electric vehicles but also have a conventional gasoline or diesel engine. This allows them to drive short distances on electricity-only, switching to liquid fuel for longer trips. Although not as clean as battery electric or fuel cell vehicles, plug-in hybrids produce significantly less pollution than their conventional counterparts. Learn more about how plug-in vehicles work.

Conventional hybrids also have conventional engines and an electric motor and battery, but can’t be plugged-in. Though cleaner than conventional cars and trucks, non-plug-in hybrids derive all their power from gasoline and diesel, and aren’t considered electric vehicles. Learn more about how hybrids work.

Learn more about electric vehicle technology here, including its potential as a nationwide oil-saving solution.
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Deadwolf
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Re: Electric Corvair

Post by Deadwolf »

EV's have a long way to go before I would consider one. I need something that I can drive coast to coast with stops for only fuel and a night in a hotel. I daily drive my V8 Silverado 1500 and won't buy a new gas car without a V8. I am a little disappointed in the towing characteristics of the 2014-1018 Silverado 1500 as it doesn't seem to have the get up and go the prior generation had with the same 5.3 Liter engine. The Corvair is actually only the second non V8 car I've owned. The first was a Miata. After driving my dads new Duramax 3/4 ton Silverado I think my next truck will be a 3/4 ton with Duramax. I like to be able to hitch up my trailer and drive 700 miles away to pick up a parts car and drive back all in one weekend.
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