what to look for when buying a corvair?

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dogstalker
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what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by dogstalker »

i am looking into buying 2 corvairs, one he says has rust, the other is just for parts. the on that has rust is actually in really good condtion, and runs. the paint is good, and the interior is like it rolled out of the factory. so for my questions : the running one has a powerglide, the parts one has a four speed, no engine, basically no interior. anyway. how hard would it be to put the four speed in a car with a powerglide, and since the corvair is a unibody car, how much rust is too much? and how much is non-repairable? i can see in the pictures that it has rust in all the quarter panels, and a little on the trunk hood/front hood. heres the link if you want to look for yourself: http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5905375115.html
and the parts one: http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5900194509.html
thanks from a completly new to-be corvair owner!
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b74eqcm
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by b74eqcm »

Someone will come along with a link to a buying guide. But in the meantime:

- the two cars you link to are not compatible. The 4 door sedan is an 'early' model (built from 1960-1964). The second car you link to is a 'late' model (they were built from 1965-1969). They are significantly different cars and you shouldn't count on anything swapping over without a lot of work.

- how much rust is too much is a sliding scale of how much work you are prepared to do to save it, your welding skills, and the availability of replacement panels as needed. The rust that matters is the rust you can not see from above. Being a unibody car, there is no frame to support the weight, so the structure of the car itself does that. From front to rear the rocker panels carry significant weight. Any loss of structural integrity in the rockers needs to be fixed as part of any repair/restoration. The floor pans also often rust out - new panels are available to install, but should be welded rather than pop riveted or glued in to maintain the torsional integrity (so the unibody doesn't twist). Lastly, the 'dog legs' (the structural pieces that come up out of the rockers and form the door frames) are also critical and perhaps the hardest to fix. A rusty quarter panel or front fender bottom is not a big deal - the three things above are.

And I'm not buying the 'do a fluid flush and change the filter and the powerglide transmission will be magically healed' bit. The powerglide transmissions are pretty bullet proof, but now more than 50 years old, some will need a full overhaul.

Hope this helps.
Jim Thomas
Bethel, VT
63 Monza Coupe
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b74eqcm
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by b74eqcm »

I found the buyers guide. Check it out:

http://autoxer.skiblack.com/nallm/prebuychecks.pdf
Jim Thomas
Bethel, VT
63 Monza Coupe
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dogstalker
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by dogstalker »

b74eqcm wrote:Someone will come along with a link to a buying guide. But in the meantime:

- the two cars you link to are not compatible. The 4 door sedan is an 'early' model (built from 1960-1964). The second car you link to is a 'late' model (they were built from 1965-1969). They are significantly different cars and you shouldn't count on anything swapping over without a lot of work.

- how much rust is too much is a sliding scale of how much work you are prepared to do to save it, your welding skills, and the availability of replacement panels as needed. The rust that matters is the rust you can not see from above. Being a unibody car, there is no frame to support the weight, so the structure of the car itself does that. From front to rear the rocker panels carry significant weight. Any loss of structural integrity in the rockers needs to be fixed as part of any repair/restoration. The floor pans also often rust out - new panels are available to install, but should be welded rather than pop riveted or glued in to maintain the torsional integrity (so the unibody doesn't twist). Lastly, the 'dog legs' (the structural pieces that come up out of the rockers and form the door frames) are also critical and perhaps the hardest to fix. A rusty quarter panel or front fender bottom is not a big deal - the three things above are.

And I'm not buying the 'do a fluid flush and change the filter and the powerglide transmission will be magically healed' bit. The powerglide transmissions are pretty bullet proof, but now more than 50 years old, some will need a full overhaul.

Hope this helps.
yea i wasnt buying the fluid flush will magically heal the transmission either. a guy said that about a 78 cadillac i bought. stuck in first gear he said, just needs a flush he said. turned out he completely roasted the other clutch packs and 1st was the only gear that would grab enough to move it. so anyway, basically the 4 speed in the parts car wont go into the running car without a bunch of work? because that was going to be my fix for the powerglide lol. thanks for your input! greatly appreciated.
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by terribleted »

The 4 speed in the 65 car (if it is original to the car) will work in the earlier sedan ( with rear crossmember modification as the early 4 speed had a factory modified crossmember), however the differential in the 65 will not and the 4 speed differential is not the same as the PG one. None of the clutch linkage , pedals, shifter etc, will transfer either. The 65 Motor will swap to the earlier car as a unit but there are few compatible parts between the 2 motors. Very few parts are compatible between the 2 cars.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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acarlson
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by acarlson »

You might take a look here: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.c ... =buyorsell

There may be something that'd work better for you.

Alec
Alec Carlson
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Regal Red Corsa 4 Speed Turbo Convertible
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by miniman82 »

Look for a turbo!

Jk, vairy merry Christmas!
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by erco »

A helpful video.

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bbodie52
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Re: what to look for when buying a Corvair?

Post by bbodie52 »

:welcome2: :wave: Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

Neither of the Denver Craigslist links are valid anymore.

I wrote this some time ago for prospective owners who are new to Corvairs. It might be useful to you...


Image


:think: Please look over the following comments that I wrote some time ago, and see if they might help you with learning about owning a Corvair. You may have already seen these comments and suggestions, but if not, I hope they are helpful...
As a new owner of a Corvair, I will try to answer a few of your questions directly, and will also provide some material that I wrote in the past to others who were also considering purchasing their first Corvair. My family purchased our first Corvair in 1961 when I was eight years old. My parents bought a brand-new 1961 Corvair Monza four-speed manual transmission coupe. In 1965 they sold the first Corvair and purchased a new 1965 Corvair Corsa convertible (140 hp 4×1 carburetor engine with four-speed transmission). At age 66, it must be painfully obvious that I like these cars, since my wife and I continue to drive a 1966 Corvair Corsa convertible with the same engine and transmission that my parents had in their 1965 Corvair many decades ago.

I have driven Corvairs all over the United States and in Europe as well. During my 24 year career in the Air Force I took two Corvairs with me when we were transferred to an assignment near Ramstein Air Base, in Kaiserslautern, West Germany. These Corvairs easily transported my wife and two children along with me to assignments all over the United States. They were our primary transportation for most of the 24 years that I was in the Air Force. They also did quite well on the German autobahn during my three year assignment in Europe.

To give you some idea of my confidence in driving Corvairs, I purchased our current 1966 Corvair Corsa convertible from a classic car dealer in Lakeland Florida. My wife and I purchased this car in 2012 for our 40th wedding anniversary. I spotted the car on eBay and negotiated the purchase over the phone. Trusting that the car would have no problems with a return trip, I purchased a bus ticket from Atlanta to Lakeland Florida, completed the transaction, and drove the car 565 miles back to our home in North Carolina. The Corvair attracted a lot of attention at practically every gas stop and fast food restaurant that I stopped at on the return trip. I was also the recipient of many smiles and thumbs-up signs at intersections while I waited for the light to change! People seem to like Corvairs, and my new convertible always seemed to attract attention in the parking lot as a crowd of curiosity lookers would gather around the car while asking many questions and telling me stories about their memories of having a family Corvair in their younger days. I can't guarantee that you will always be able to drive a Corvair over long distances without mechanical problems. These Corvairs are more than 50 years old, after all. But if you take the time to learn to maintain your Corvair properly and develop the DIY skills needed to take care of your Corvair, you can probably count on some pretty good results.

I wrote the following material some years ago to answer similar questions from other potential new Corvair owners...
bbodie52 wrote:Thanks. I hope my previous comments were helpful. Your comments seem to reflect interest but also uncertainty. I have worked with a number of first-time Corvair buyers in Europe who were considering a purchase of a car from USA sources (to provide a greater range of cars to consider), while knowing that such a effort would make it impossible for them to test drive or personally evaluate the car before purchasing and shipping it. Your circumstances are somewhat similar. They contacted local experienced Corvair owners and aficionados through this Corvair Forum and through local CORSA clubs, and they often found sympathetic club members who were willing to help as local "third party" volunteer assistants.

There is much to consider, and the material below is something I wrote some years ago to try to help the first-time Corvair buyer. Corvairs can be found from sources throughout the United States and Canada. I hope you will find these comments to be useful...


:chevy: The Corvairs are vintage 1960s technology and design — easy to learn and easy to maintain. I would say that learning to work on a Corvair is analogous to an experienced home DIY "shade tree" car mechanic learning to work on a motorcycle. The concepts and procedures are very similar, but the details and the way it is put together is a little different. With the Corvair engine (like a motorcycle) you are dealing with a lot of aluminum. The metal is soft when compared to steel and cast iron, so the use of a torque wrench, anti-seize compound and carefully avoiding cross-threading becomes more important. Also, (like some motorcycles) you are dealing with multiple carburetors so tuning procedures are a little different. The use of Corvair shop manuals and supplements, other technical guides, and information sources like the Corvair Forum, and perhaps joining a CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapter can help you to quickly learn about Corvairs. Information resources, like good Corvair parts suppliers, are plentiful if you know where to look. Suppliers like Clark's Corvair Parts have been well-respected and extremely supportive since 1973, and suppliers like that make Corvair ownership more practical and much-more possible. I taught myself how to remove a Corvair powertrain, overhaul the engine, and rebuild the Powerglide transmission during my summer vacation in 1969, when I was sixteen years old. I was working alone (my father had been transferred by Lockheed from northern California to southern California, and we had not yet moved to join him). I had a shop manual and a garage full of tools. There was no Internet, no Corvair Forum, no CORSA club — I was pretty-much on my own. Yet I learned and was successful (in 1972 that engine carried me and my new bride on our wedding day and on our honeymoon).

So you should be able to master working on Corvairs without too much trouble — except watch out for rust and body rot! The Corvair is of unibody construction, so most body repair involves cutting and welding. The doors, trunk lid (in the front) :tongue: , and engine compartment lid (in the back) ::-): and maybe the gas filler door are the only bolt-on body components. Everything else is cut and weld, and the body serves as the main chassis frame. So unless you are a master body repair technician, you need to select your Corvair carefully and avoid excessive hidden rust or a "Bondo bucket". The door frame areas, fenders, floor pan, the bottom of the trunk, lower windshield and battery area often rust and rot.

What follows is an attempt at introducing new prospective Corvair Owners to Corvairs and some of the issues involved. Food for thought, before you take the plunge. This is a copy of something I wrote earlier, but I think it may be helpful in your quest for the "right" Corvair...
bbodie52 wrote:I will try to provide a quick summary of the 1960-1969 Corvair lineup, and will also try to provide some answers regarding the use of a Corvair as a "daily driver".

EARLY MODEL: 1960 - 1964 Corvairs were the first generation. Their body style emulated other Chevrolet body styles from the early 1960s. The rear suspension was a swing-axle design that was similar to the Volkswagen "Beetle". The 1960 model year was the only year with a 140 cubic inch engine, and there were some characteristics that were unique to that model year only. A number of refinements were implemented in the following year, including some restyling of the front end and an increase in displacement to 145 cubic inches (CI). A manual choke was used in 1961, and this was changed to an automatic choke design in 1962 that remained with the car through 1969. A turbocharged 150 hp Spyder was introduced in 1962, and the Spyder name remained with the turbocharged engine through 1964. In 1964 the engine displacement in all Corvair engines increased from 145 CI to 164 CI. There were also some suspension refinements, including a front anti-sway bar and a rear transverse leaf spring to improve handling in all 1964 Corvairs. Here are a few pictures of Early Model (EM) 1960-1964 Corvairs...

Image 1963 Monza Coupe

Image 1964 Monza Convertible

Image 1962 Lakewood Station Wagon

Image 1963 Monza Interior

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1964 Corvair Engine Compartment

Image Corvair Rampside Truck

Image Corvair Greenbrier Van

Image Van/Truck Interior

LATE MODEL:The 1965 Corvair introduced a completely new body style, that was also seen later in similar styles in the Camaro and Pontiac Firebird. The drum brake size was increased, and the swing-axle rear suspension design used in EM Corvairs was abandoned. The new rear suspension was a design lifted from the Corvette Stingray.

1965 and 1966 Corvairs were nearly identical. In 1967-69 the top of the line Corsa was dropped, leaving the Monza and economy 500 until production was discontinued in the spring of 1969. During the 1967-69 production period, there were minor safety changes, such as a dual master brake cylinder in place of the single unit used in 1960-1966. Interior seats and trim changed somewhat, paralleling the items used in Camaros and some other GM products during that period.

All 1965-66 Corsas came with a standard 4-carburetor 140 hp engine, and an optional 180 hp turbocharged engine. The 140 hp engine remained optional in the rest of the lineup. Other engine options in the Monza and 500 were 110 hp and 95 hp dual carburetor engines. All engines could be had with a manual 4-speed or 3-speed transmission, or with a 2-speed Powerglide automatic (with the exception of the 1965-66 turbocharged 180 hp engine, which was available with the Corsa only, and only with a 4-speed manual transmission).

Air conditioning was a rare option, but can be found in the 1965-1967 lineup, and some of the EM Corvairs as well. The following link will provide you with some air conditioned Corvair background and history...
:link: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/airvairs/

The brakes, front and rear suspension, transaxle and body were essentially identical in the Corsa, Monza, and 500. The primary differences in the cars were the instrument panel (the Corsa had more gauges), trim details, and the engine option.

The late model Corvairs were available in a 2-door Coupe, 2-door Convertible, and 4-door Sedan. In 1968, the four-door hardtop was discontinued, leaving three models—the 500 and Monza Hardtop Coupes and the Monza Convertible. Air conditioning was dropped as an option. The weight of the cars was very similar in all configurations.

Image
1965 Corvair Corsa Coupe
Image


Image
1965 Corvair Corsa Convertible

ImageImage
1965 Corvair Monza 4-Door Sedan

ImageImage
Corsa Interior (Top) / Monza Interior (Bottom)

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140 hp 164 CI 4x1 Carburetor Engine (1965-1969)

Image



Corvairs can suffer from rust and body rot problems, especially in areas that use a lot of road salt in the wintertime. While you may be able to learn and successfully attack most mechanical issues as a DIY effort, body decay can be much-more difficult, time-consuming, intimidating, and expensive to correct. So look for hidden rust or rot problems that may have been covered up with plastic filler, and be cautious in your Corvair selection.

A Corvair can serve well as a daily driver. But I would recommend a backup car or other alternatives, since ANY breakdown can put the car out of service for days until replacement parts can be obtained (if needed). If you have the skills and ability to work on the car yourself, repairs can often be completed fairly quickly. But if you have to rely on professional mechanics, downtime can be long and possibly expensive — if you can find a good mechanic to do the work for you.
bbodie52 wrote:Here is something I wrote over a year ago — Brad's Admonition, or some words of advice — based on over 50 years of exposure to Corvair ownership — that I wrote to try to give new Corvair buyers some idea of the issues involved. I'm sure you have some idea already, but I also think this is worth considering...

Since you are new to Corvairs, I want to give you some information that I have written to other new prospective first-time Corvair owners. I have been involved with Corvairs since I was eight years old, when my parents bought our first Corvair – a brand new 1961 Monza 2-door coupe, white on red with a 4-speed transmission. I now own Corvair number ten, which I purchased in June 2012. (If you want to read a brief personal biography that outlines my family background and our experiences with Corvairs, go to CORVAIR FORUM > Introductions > New from Lake Chatuge North Carolina. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4032 ) I want to encourage your enthusiasm in developing your plans to buy your first Corvair, but at the same time I want to help you to think through just what you are getting into. So please read and consider these comments below...

I have listened to many potential Corvair first-time owners. Many have no prior experience with owning any classic car, and many have never driven a Corvair at all, or have not driven one in decades. Some are motivated by childhood memories of a family Corvair. They typically describe the desire to locate a perfect, restored, ultra-clean example, and look to the Corvair Forum Corvair enthusiasts and aficionados to tell them what to do.

The first thing I think that needs to be done is to try to set-aside the usual emotion-based enthusiasm that any car buyer might feel when visiting a dealer and gazing with emotional eagerness at the vast array of new cars displayed in the showroom, on the car lot, and in factory brochures and advertisements. There is an extreme difference between owning a 50+ year-old Chevrolet that was likely engineered, designed and built with pre-planned obsolescence in mind — a car that GM only envisioned having a life-span of ten years or so. Many of the potential Corvair buyers are captivated with the exciting idea of owning something different — something not normally seen on the road — something that your neighbor will not buy! Certainly that is the case with a Corvair, but owning a Corvair and enjoying that ownership demands a certain dose of reality before you "buy-in". Many are unprepared for the maintenance and upkeep demands of a Corvair. "Where can I find a good Corvair mechanic?" is a common question — often displaying an inability or unwillingness to do some mechanical work and maintain that car yourself. Yet qualified Corvair mechanics can be distant, expensive, inconvenient, and all-too rare. At a time when finding even a spark plug, fan belt, or oil filter for a Corvair often means an Internet or mail-order purchase, finding local support may be unlikely or impossible. Even searching automobile junk yards will often not help, because these cars are so rare and infrequently found that they have all but disappeared from the scrap yards too. Even locating and buying a used part is a mail-order proposition. And even if you spend $15,000-$20,000 for a fully-restored Corvair in mint condition, it still comes "as-is", with no warranty and little in the way of a local support system — far different than what most car buyers are used to expecting! These are the realities of owning an older classic car.

Corvairs are popular and affordable classic cars, and enjoy a good infrastructure of maintenance supporters, owner's clubs, and parts suppliers — and that REALLY helps! But I suspect that most happy Corvair owners are something of "shade-tree mechanics" and hobbyists who are prepared to deal with the risks and problems related to Corvair ownership. It requires a long-term commitment and a dose of reality to happily own a classic Corvair. The "first date" infatuation with the attractiveness and uniqueness of a Corvair will not sustain you in a long-term relationship with a Corvair. It is far-better to have a realistic idea of just what you are getting into before you "take the plunge" and buy your dream car.

A cautious, knowledgeable and educated search for your dream Corvair is a great start, and a careful and realistic analysis of your own mechanical talents, skills and abilities is also useful. If you plan to have a mechanic do most of the work for you, the availability of a Corvair-skilled mechanic and the associated costs involved must be taken into account in your financial planning to own a Corvair.

I try to not be too negative, but I have worked with others who came to realize that Corvair ownership was more than they could handle. I just feel that new prospective Corvair owners come here to this forum to learn from others who have more experience, and we are not doing them any favors by "candy coating" the issues involved. If they pass the "sanity check" and still want to pursue buying a Corvair, then GREAT! This Forum and perhaps some local Corvair club members can potentially help them pursue that dream. But it should be a realistic dream, and not a frustrating "nightmare" experience. Better to make a clear-headed, informed decision early in the game!

I hope that these comments are useful to you. I know I get "long-winded", but I also know you are trying to make an important decision, and I hope all of these comments will help you.
A Corvair can serve well as a daily driver. But I would recommend a backup car or other alternatives, since ANY breakdown can put the car out of service for days until replacement parts can be obtained (if needed). If you have the skills and ability to work on the car yourself, repairs can often be completed fairly quickly. But if you have to rely on professional mechanics, downtime can be long and possibly expensive — if you can find a good mechanic to do the work for you.

If you wish to consider some price comparisons for drivable, complete Corvairs, here are several "Corvair For Sale" websites that may be useful...
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
belaraphon
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Re: what to look for when buying a corvair?

Post by belaraphon »

I have performed this conversion on a 1965 Monza. You just need the right parts and it sounds like you may have them with the two cars. The main things you need to replace are:
1. Dashboard (to get rid of the hole for the powerglide shifter. Lots of them for sale, save the old one for parts such as fuel gauge)
2.Clutch and brake pedal assembly, shift lever, shift tube and coupler, floor shims).
2.1Be sure to check the shift tube for smooth operation. The factory had paper shims and nylon end caps between the inner to outer tube housing. I would replace it with a shift tube kit from clark's which uses lubricated brass bushings. It makes a world of difference in the shift action.
2.2You will also have to cut a hole in the floor to mount the shift lever assembly and properly shim the assembly to the floor so it can move back and forth with the transaxle. Floor thickness can vary which is why the factory did this. Start off with the shims as installed in the donor car, make sure to keep them in order when disassembling the parts car.
3. Clutch disc, pressure plate, clutch cable and and pulleys, shift fork and bell housing, "Z" bar and body mounted pivot plate, return spring, under body tunnel rubber dirt seals for shift shaft and clutch linkage
4. Transaxle, transmission and transmission mounting bracket.
5. Wiring (jumper the neutral safety switch and you can use as is or replace the wire harnesses).
5.1 If you have reverse lights you will want to use the body wiring harness to get that function as it is done in the dash on the PG else you have to do some splicing. Note that the backup lamp switch is on the bottom side of the 4 speed transmission and could be damaged.
5.2 Replace the fuse block wiring harness to eliminate the neutral safety switch, transmission switch lamp and backup lamp connectors.

Of course you will want to have the factory service manual if you don't have it. Please note the manual is incorrect in showing the clutch "Z" bar return spring mounted on the "Z" bar bracket. Observe how the spring mounts on the parts car. It goes to the transaxle.
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