New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

New to the site? Introduce yourself here.
Highland 124
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:40 pm

New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Highland 124 »

IMG_1047.JPG
Hello! I've always wanted a classic convertible, and recently decided to get a Corvair due in part to their affordability. Knowing next to nothing about them, I began researching and soon ran across this forum. I've been amazed at the depth of knowledge, and have learned more here than anywhere else. Originally, I leaned towards the EM, but kept an open mind and developed a preference for the LM 65-66 Monza convertible. Not looking for either a project or show car, but a solid, complete car for driving on weekends and the like. Heeding advice often seen here, I decided to get the best car I can afford... and rust-free. I've been looking on Craigslist, but haven't found anything yet. Have also been looking on eBay, figuring that I'll probably need to go south or even out west to find a good rust-free car.

A bit about me: I live just outside Rochester, NY and am a lifelong car nut. Have basic mechanical skills; did a lot of shade tree mechanic type stuff when I was younger and cars were less complicated. Although my skills aren't extensive, I enjoy taking on new challenges with cars and like to do things myself whenever possible.

My boss is an experienced Corvair mechanic who has also owned several, and told me of a 65 Corsa convertible for sale locally. He has some familiarity with the car, having worked on it in the past. Never imagined I might find a Corsa (especially local), but of course I was excited at the prospect. I checked it out a couple of days ago. It's a 140 4 speed, red with a white top and black interior. According to the current owner, it's an older (20+ years) repaint by a PO, and he believes it was originally blue. 83,997 on the clock, which he says hasn't turned over. Off the road for the past 3 years, it's been garage-kept and started occasionally. It's on just the 3rd owner; says he used it as a DD in summer but hasn't had time for it in the past 3 years, so he finally decided to sell. Kept it registered though, which expired just a couple of days beforehand.

It started right up; idled rough, but the engine smoothed out in driving and the transmission shifted fine. The test drive had to be cut short due to rain... open back and passenger side windows. Back window is shot; zipper torn away and the plastic window badly yellowed. I don't know if that can be replaced or if the whole top needs to go. Passenger window present but down and would only go up an inch or so. Glass was loose; suspect it was off track, but could be a regulator issue. Interior looks original, good and mostly complete except for missing sun visors; the pivots were in place though. No rips or tears in the upholstery, and dash pad in good shape. Driver's door card had a slight bulge on hinge side, but otherwise intact with a good armrest. Carpet was faded but not excessively worn; kick panels chipped and scratched. LR pass. window worked, but needed a good effort; Driver and RR pass. windows ok. The manual top lowered until it got close to the fender top, but did push down further. Didn't seem to be the frame, as it did go down all the way with a harder push. I later found the top boot was in the well; don't know if that could have been the problem, maybe along with the back window...?

The engine compartment seemed pretty clean and complete. Battery tray had some rust, but seemed to be solid. All 4 carbs were rebuilt a few years ago. I was able to get a picture of the block number, which I've included below. I was unable to find either the VIN plate or body tag, though... thought the tag would be on the right side of the back frame rail, but maybe 65 was different. Registration sticker shows the VIN as 107675W214179, indicating it's a true Corsa. I'd still like to find the VIN plate and body tag; any guidance on where to find them would be great.

Trunk looked good except for a small amount of minor surface rust on the shelf below the master cylinder. That is, until I looked under the mat, where I did find rust. More substantial than the shelf, but doesn't seem to be rusted through. Body panels looked straight; paint had a couple small chips on the sides and around the rear antenna hole; antenna missing. There's about an 8" long scrape between the back window molding and engine cover, which owner says was accidentally caused some time ago by someone working on the top. No bare metal though. Area below windshield was solid; no rust. No insurmountable problems up to that point, but then I found bubbles on the lower left fender area, behind the wheel well. And then, what I had most feared: rust spots in the driver's door frame. :eek: One on the corner of the door sill where it meets the hinge pillar, and a second one on the right side lower corner of the door frame. That also had a pinhole, and the other seemed to have raised up but solid metal. There was a crack extending from there up the hinge pillar to about the height of the lower hinge; I couldn't tell for sure whether it's the result of more rust, but I think it's all too likely. Driver's door also sags a bit and contacts edge of the quarter panel near the top, where some paint has worn through. Passenger door frame appears okay, and rockers seem solid... as best I can tell.

It'll be going to my boss' shop in the coming week for him to check the engine, transmission and all else. While it's on the lift, we'll look closely at the rockers and the entire underside for any further rust.

If this were a Monza, I'd have left and moved on when I found the rust... there are plenty more out there. Being a Corsa is a game changer; I'm willing to give on some things... but only to a point. I don't know if it would be feasible to still consider the car given the rust. If more is found underneath, that would finish it off though. His price is $7000 firm. I've tried to give a thorough explanation, and have included pictures. I'm interested in any and all opinions of forum members as to whether it's worthwhile to pursue, and if so, what it might be worth if no further issues are found.
Attachments
IMG_1055.JPG
IMG_1059.JPG
IMG_1052.JPG
IMG_1053.JPG
IMG_1060.JPG
IMG_1076.JPG
IMG_1084.JPG
IMG_1077.JPG
IMG_1088.jpg
IMG_1089.JPG
IMG_1091.JPG
IMG_1100.JPG
IMG_1101.JPG
IMG_1102.JPG
Highland 124
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Highland 124 »

Driver's side. Other side is fine
Driver's side. Other side is fine
Attachments
IMG_1110.JPG
IMG_1111.JPG
IMG_1112.JPG
IMG_1114.JPG
IMG_1129.JPG
IMG_1132.JPG
IMG_1135.JPG
IMG_1134.JPG
IMG_1139.JPG
IMG_1140.jpg
IMG_1063.jpg
IMG_1068.JPG
IMG_1069.JPG
IMG_1105.JPG
User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 11909
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by bbodie52 »

:welcome2: :wave: Welcome to the Corvair Forum! It sounds like you are all primed to buy, and that you have the foundation in mechanical skills to be able to tackle most mechanical jobs on a Corvair.

Here is a link to a dream car you might want to own. It is currently for sale in Florida...

:link: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8701

The VIN and Body Tags are both located in the engine compartment — riveted to the perimeter frame in the locations shown...
Tag Locations.jpg
With any car that has lived in a northern state you have to be particularly concerned about corrosion and road salt damage with hidden body rot. Convertibles in particular are susceptible to a weakened chassis in the door frame areas, which had to be reinforced at the factory to compensate for the removal of the roof. The pictures of the door hinge and frame on the car you are looking at would be of particular concern, because you don't know what lies beneath.

One method of checking for weakness in this area is to raise the top but leave a gap between the top and the windshield frame. Open the doors and use the opened door like a lever to apply pressure up and down while observing the windshield frame for flexing and a significant change in the gap between the forward part of the top and the windshield frame as you apply up and down pressure on the doors on each side. Any serious weakness in the chassis will often show up as the windshield flexes. Also check the floors under the carpet for body rot or poor-quality repairs. Serious body rot can be expensive and difficult to repair, and in some cases almost irreparable. I know very little about body repair, but there are others here on the Corvair Forum who have extensive background in Corvair body repair and restoration. Hopefully they will comment on the pictures you have posted. Just be cautious with any purchase. You may even consider finding a good body or restoration shop to get their comments on this car, if you are seriously considering it.

A couple of other used Corvair listings include the CORSA (Corvair Society of America) website and Clark's Corvair Parts. Links are shown below...

:link: http://www.corvair.org/index.php?option ... Itemid=575

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.c ... =buyorsell

==========================================================================

One or more of these New York-based Corvair Clubs may have some leads on local Corvairs for sale. But again, be cautious in your road salt-infested state. sometimes it is better to look to the south and buy from Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. and then pay the shipping charges. CORSA members and Corvair Forum members will sometimes assist by checking a prospective car for you if it is local to them. We have even had CORSA members assist European buyers in England and Italy as third-parties to check out prospective Corvairs that were listed on eBay or some other source.

The Corvair Forum is a great way to learn about Corvairs and to find guidance and assistance in helping you with Corvair-related issues. But there is no real substitute for face-to-face contact with other like-minded Corvair enthusiasts. I would strongly suggest that you consider joining a local CORSA club chapter. These clubs are usually family-oriented and offer car shows, competitions, DIY training and assistance, picnics, etc. that can really enhance the enjoyment of owning and driving a Corvair.

ImageThere are several CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters in New York. I would suggest contacting them and inquiring about membership.

Here are some links to investigate...

Image
Long Island Corvair Association
West Babylon, New York - Chapter 117
:link: http://longislandcorvairassociation.zohosites.com/

Image
Central New York Corvair Club
P.O. Box 616 Jamesville, NY 13078 - Chapter 130)
:link: http://www.cnycorvair.com/CNYCorvair.php

Image
Capital District Corvair Club
Delmar, New York - Chapter 120
:link: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/chapter120/

Image
ACORNS (Association of COvaiR NutS)
Rochester, New York - Chapter 148
:link: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/chapter148/

Image
Niagara Frontier Corvair Club
Buffalo, New York - Chapter 140
:link: http://nfcc.8m.com/index.html
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
Highland 124
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Highland 124 »

Thanks Brad. Rust is the number one thing I've been trying to avoid, and here in NY it's tough to find any older car without body rot. It was disappointing but not that surprising to find rust on this Corsa; now I'm trying to get an idea of just how serious it is. I may know more this week when it goes on the lift and we can examine the underside. At that time I'll also do that test you suggested. In the meantime I'd love to to get some opinions and advice from other forum members too.

There have been very few cars advertised locally, but most have been either rust buckets or basket cases. I'm also searching out of state since it's not likely I'll find a rust-free car around here. Clark's, eBay and Craigslist are where I've been looking. Now that I know CORSA has ads for cars, I'll start checking there too.

One of the local Corsa chapters you listed (ACorNs) is right here in Rochester, but their website seems very dated. All information seems to be from a few years ago, so I wonder if they still exist. The western NY chapter isn't far away, so maybe I'll look into that.

Eric
User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 11909
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by bbodie52 »

Unfortunately poorly maintained or out-of-date websites have become too common in some clubs. The work is all voluntary and sometimes the work just doesn't get done. The website is the main point of initial contact with new prospective members like yourself, so a poor website can become a great deterrent to attracting new membership.

There are email addresses for the club executives, and the vice president has also listed a phone number. There is a possibility that the club is active and functional, and that their website may be giving you a bad, but possibly inaccurate first impression. I would suggest making an attempt to email or call some of the listed club leaders and see what happens. Here is the officers list...
Image
President: Paul Abel, Phone: 716-473-2422, eMail: abelbrass@gmail.com, Address: 21 Brooklawn Dr, Rochester, NY 14618
(Address and phone number have not been confirmed. Obtained using http://www.zabasearch.com/).

Vice President: David Shoemaker, Phone: 585-393-1912, eMail: Dshoemaker001@rochester.rr.com,
Address: 42 Dorset Dr, Canandaigua, NY 14424-1016
(Address obtained with a phone number reverse lookup using http://www.switchboard.com/)

Treasurer: Jeff Clark, eMail: carbuyersedge@earthlink.net

Newsletter Editor: Steve Dietrick, eMail: sdietrick@frontier.com

Historian: Paul Abel, eMail: abelbrass@gmail.com

Web Site: Marissa Andolino, eMail: mandolin@rochester.rr.com
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
Ricks65
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:58 pm
Location: North East Ohio

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Ricks65 »

In the trunk looks to be just surface rust no big problem.

With out seeing exactly where the zipper is broken on the vert top and in the one pic it looks like the top pad needs replaced. If the top is more than a couple years old, it would be very doubtful the repairs can be made without replacing the top fabric.

The area near the door hinges. There will be more rust under the paint that is lifting. What you are seeing there is the tip of the iceberg.
The other area I would check for rust; Remove the two panels above the front parking lights in the trunk. There is only three small screws holding each one on and look in there.

Go over the entire body with a fridge magnet to find areas where there may be heavy deposits of body filler. In the corners of the windshield there will be factory lead so the magnet will not stick there. The best way to check this area is to Look up under the dash where it meets the windshield for signs of rust or to see if previous repairs were done correctly. Here's an example of what I found when looking at one. On the outside it looked great until I looked under the dash and got this picture.
100_1791.JPG
Darrin
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:26 am

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Darrin »

I no longer mess with rusty east coast cars. Look on CL in Arizona and California....the shipping would likely be around $1000, but you will save in the long run. That car, with rust in the door pillars, could be a mess underneat that shiny paint.
Highland 124
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Highland 124 »

Update:

Car went to the shop; mechanical and electrical were checked and found to be in very good shape. I hadn't seen it outdoors in light until now, and noticed some things I missed before. Some small bubbles found in passenger door hinge pillar, and a few very small bubbles on sides of driver's rocker. Underside of car was clean; bottom side of rockers good, floor pans and trunk floor solid. The rust on the inside of the trunk was only surface rust.

The rust spot on the driver's door hinge pillar is worse than first thought. The crack that extends up the pillar is cracked bondo. As a mechanic was carefully probing it, some collapsed through a rust hole beneath. A fridge magnet revealed a spot of bondo in the LR quarter, at the bottom behind the wheel well. Add the bubbled lower front fenders, and it's not looking good.
IMG_1370 - Version 2.jpg
Overall, it's a pretty good car... except for the rust. A bodyman estimated he could cut out the bad areas, weld in new metal, and paint for about $2000. Structurally, I'm not sure that would be okay for the hinge pillar. But even if it were repaired, I can't help but think there's more rot inside that'll surface one day.

I passed on the car. This was the first Corvair I've looked at, so it was a good learning experience if nothing else.
User avatar
God.favored
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:36 am
Location: Ogden UT
Contact:

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by God.favored »

Cool car, but 7,000 did seem pretty high for how much rust was on it. I had a 63 spider that I restored and it had absolutely no rust when I was done, and good paint. Sold it for 3500, LM vairs do tend to run just a bit higher in price, but not that much.
User avatar
cad-kid
Posts: 2569
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Kronenwetter, WI
Contact:

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by cad-kid »

Highland 124 wrote:Update:

I passed on the car. This was the first Corvair I've looked at, so it was a good learning experience if nothing else.
Good call to pass on this car :tu:

I passed on several before I got my Vair.
Jeremy (cad-kid)
Kronenwetter, WI (Central Wisconsin)
SOLD 9-2016 65 Monza 4spd/140
My 65 Monza thread
:soapbox: My YouTube page
Highland 124
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by Highland 124 »

The body tag was apparently removed from this car at some point. It's not on the rear frame rail where it should be, but the mounting holes are there. I don't know why someone would remove it; the only thing I can think of is if they were trying to turn a Monza into a fake Corsa. The VIN (107675W214179) confirms it's a Corsa, though. VIN plate was painted over in a past repaint of the compartment, but I was able to read it.

Any ideas why the tag might have been removed? Since I passed on the car, it doesn't matter anymore... but I'm still curious.
Attachments
IMG_1362.jpg
User avatar
91blaze
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:35 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: New guy looking at a 65 Corsa

Post by 91blaze »

It's possible they removed it so they could repaint everything and misplaced it. It may show up in the trunk or glovebox if you haven't looked yet.
'66 Monza Coupe Project: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Post Reply

Return to “Introductions”