New from East Texas - 64 Monza

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joefarmer
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New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:22 am

Hello everyone! I'm completely new to the Corvair following, just purchased a 64 Monza 4 Door this week. The car is running and driving... in the loosest sense of the term. The engine will only stay alive if you have your foot to the floor but then tries to putter out as soon as you put the car into gear. Brakes are almost non-existent (including the emergency brake). Gen / Temp light stays on continuously. Paint is rough and may have been done by an amateur. But other than that the car is a survivor, the interior is still there, all glass is good, chrome looks decent, and so far no signs of major rust. I'm excited to get started on this restoration and my intentions are to make this a clean "drive to church on Sunday" car. Any help along the way is appreciated!! More updates to come this weekend.

- Joe
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Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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thewolfe
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by thewolfe » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:22 am

Looks like a solid car to start from. Good luck and welcome!
Nate Wolfe
65 corsa 180

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Rons64
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by Rons64 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:28 am

Welcome to the site. You'll have fun getting your '64 ready for church trips. There's a lot of great knowledge here for you to tap.
Good Luck!!

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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by SteveH » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:31 am

Looks great !!!! Welcome to the board and the world of Corvairs!
CORSA Member #034095
65 Corvair Corsa "Field Find" 140-4, 4 speed, Hardtop, Telescoping wheel. Rear Speaker
65 Corvair Corsa Automatic 140-4, Coupe

joefarmer
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:32 am

Thanks! Any suggestions on where to start? Planning to do plenty of research and find out exactly what I've got first, maybe put it on a lift and get some pics of the underside. I'm sure a basic tune up would do a world of good (points, coil, plugs, clean out the carbs, new gas in tank, etc). Are the carbs difficult for this particular year model?
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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bbodie52
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by bbodie52 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:58 pm

:welcome2: Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

I have been around Corvairs since my parents bought their first new Corvair in 1961 — a 4-speed Monza coupe. (I was 8 years old at the time). They later bought a new 1965 Corvair Corsa convertible, and I learned to drive in that car and took my first driver's test in it. We have driven Corvairs for decades all over the USA and in Germany while serving with the U.S. Air Force, and at age 64 my wife and I still own a 1966 Corsa convertible.

I will try to address some of your problems mentioned in your introduction...

Your aging and somewhat stale Corvair needs a thorough mechanical check. The condition of the seals in the master cylinder and wheel cylinders is certainly questionable. All should be inspected. You may want to consider replacing the single master cylinder with a dual master cylinder upgrade (available from Clark's Corvair Parts and others). The flexible brake hoses are likely in poor condition and should be replaced, and all four wheel cylinders should be rebuilt or replaced. Of course the drums and brake components should be inspected and repaired, as needed, and the brake fluid should be flushed and replaced. (Brake fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture from the air over time. Excess water build-up in the fluid can rust steel brake lines and cause corrosive damage to the internal wheel and master cylinders. Moisture in the brake fluid will also lower the boiling point, which can result in early brake fade as the brakes get hot).

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=143

There is a long parking brake cable that is routed through several pulleys to the rear of the car, and another cable at the rear that crosses over between the two rear brakes. The condition of these cables and pulleys must be inspected and repairs made, as needed. The plastic pulleys may crack or break with age. The condition of the parking brake system is particularly important in automatic transmission equipped Corvairs, because Corvair Powerglide automatic transmissions do not have a PARK position in the shift lever to lock the transmission. The emergency brake system is the only way to secure the car and prevent it from rolling away when parked! The aging parking brake cable can fray and snap without warning.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=148

The Corvair Powerglide transmission has a good reputation for reliability, but fluid levels must be properly maintained. Overfilling can cause the rotating planetary gearset and clutches to spin in a bath of fluid, causing air entrainment (foaming). Low fluid levels can cause low oil pressure, clutch slipping and burning, etc. The automatic transmission is basically a fluid-based computer. Your transmission fluid should be clean and red in color, and should not show a brown discoloration or have a burned smell. Also, the vacuum modulator on the right side of the transmission depends on a good vacuum line from the engine. The rubber hoses should be checked for cracks or wear. If oil appears to be present in the vacuum line, the vacuum modulator diaphragm may be worn out — permitting transmission fluid to be drawn from the transmission to the engine. Clark's Corvair Parts says "if your vacuum modulator is over 10 years old, you are running on borrowed time." A bad vacuum modulator should be replaced — it cannot be repaired.

Having to keep the throttle fully opened just to keep the engine running likely points to a need for rebuilding the carburetors, although you might also check for a vacuum leak...

Image

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=57

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=135

Removing your car from storage/Reviving a Dead Corvair
:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=5030

You did not mention your specific location in Texas. I would recommend that you contact and perhaps join the nearest CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapter to help you to gain knowledge about Corvairs. CORSA club members can offer knowledge, recommendations and contact information that may help you. Membership in a CORSA club can also enhance your enjoyment of Corvair ownership. Clubs are usually family-friendly and offer technical assistance and training, competition events, picnics and scenic drives, and other social events. Here's a list of a few east Texas Corvair club websites that would help you to locate and contact the nearest club to your location…

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Corvair Houston :link: http://www.corvairhouston.com/default.a ... =180011523

Lone Star Corvair Club (Near Austin) :link: http://www.austincorvair.com/

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007

The information below pertains to the Interstate battery line that fits the limited, odd sized battery box area in Early Model Corvairs. Feedback I've heard from buyers of the Interstate battery line seems to indicate that this brand is a quality product.
If you need a new battery, the odd size and shape of the EM battery box might confuse things a bit. Clark's charges quite a bit for a battery that is similar in appearance to the originals...

Part number C12541: 61-64 CAR & 61-65 FC SCRIPT BATTERY *1960 SEE C13056

Weight: 30 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 79
Price: $ 264.55


But there are some other choices that will fit, will provide better service, are locally available, and cost less. The battery information below has proven to provide a good fit in the standard early model Corvair (1961-1964) battery box.

:idea: Here is a battery tip for early model Corvairs like yours that may help you to get an affordable battery for your early Corvair. Be sure to compare the battery dimensions with the available battery space in your Corvair. The dealer catalogs and references are unlikely to tell them if this battery will fit your car...
freedo wrote:In my EM i ran a Interstate 51 battery, might have been a 51R can't remember off the top of my head. its a honda civic batter, its small so it fits in there, but it doesnt fill in the whole space. worked perfectly fine for me. cranked everytime, never let me down
:link: http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... +++500+CCA

MEGA-TRON 51-R AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY 75 MONTHS 500 CCA

Get long life and premium performance with Interstate Batteries' Mega-Tron 51R. With 24-months free replacement and five-year performance, this 500 CCA automotive battery will meet or exceed your vehicle's starting requirements in any hot to moderate climate.

Sugg Retail Price: $107.95
List Price: $129.95
Dealer prices will vary

Product ID: MT-51R
Amps: 625
Cranking Amps: 625
Cold Cranking Amps: 500
Voltage: 12
Termination: A
Weight: 27.9
Width: 5.13
Length: 9.38
Height: 8.88
Plates: 24
WET/DRY: W


:wrench: Here is some additional info on the use of the Interstate 51 battery...
freedo wrote:you have to make sure your tie down is tight or it will slide side to side. or you can make some plastic pieces to wedge it into shape. but interstate are strong good batteries. when i blew the motor up i had the lights on and the interior light on for almost a hour and when i went to start it up the next day it cranked right over
It appears that the only difference between the Interstate MT-51R and the MT-51 is the location of the positive and negative battery terminals...

MEGA-TRON 51-R AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY 75 MONTHS 500 CCA
:link: http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... +++500+CCA
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MEGA-TRON 51 AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY FIVE-YEAR PERFORMANCE 500 CCA
:link: http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... L4%2f1.3L)
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As shown in the picture below, the correct battery appears to be the Interstate MT-51R, which places the positive terminal correctly on the right when the battery is placed in the battery area with the terminals facing the engine.

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Whenever the battery is disconnected from the vehicle for any reason the polarization procedure should be performed.

The recommendation on how to polarize a charging system is the following: After the installation of a battery, generator or voltage regulator follow these procedures. The terminals on the voltage regulator are labeled with letters and this is where you will do the polarizing procedure. Both of the components will have battery power so do not start the vehicle or turn on the ignition switch before polarizing them. You will need a small piece of wire fourteen or sixteen gauge with alligator clips on the ends. Find the "Batt" terminal on the regulator and attach one of the alligator clips, find the "Armature" terminal and touch the terminal with the other alligator clip. You can touch the terminals a few times and it will produce a soft light spark.

:nono: Under no circumstances touch the "Field" terminal or any other part of the regulator or you could damage the regulator.

:link: http://www.vv.corvair.org/pipermail/vir ... 13475.html
Polarizing a Generator System.jpg
What you want to do is polarize the generator. If in fact it ran with reverse polarity, everything should be fine after this process. You should not have damaged anything yet.

With key off, use a piece of 14 gage or larger wire to jump between the battery and armature terminals of the voltage regulator. I am at work without a shop manual, so I forget the actual writing on the terminals. BUT, it is the top and middle terminal on Corvairs (with the regulator mounted stock position, red wires on top terminal).

It will spark! Hold for 1 or 2 seconds. The wire may also get warm, be prepared.

Start engine again and check for red light going out.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO POLARIZE A NEW GENERATOR BY FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURES IN THE CORVAIR SHOP MANUAL. THIS PROCEDURE IS DESCRIBED ON PAGE 8-18 OF THE ATTACHED SHOP MANUAL SECTION. This polarizing procedure applies ONLY to vehicles equipped with a GENERATOR. It does not apply to vehicles equipped with an alternator.

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When working on the Corvair engine, you will need to develop good habits with regard to working with aluminum components. Much of the Corvair engine was manufactured using aluminum, which is a relatively soft and easily damaged material. Bolts that screw into aluminum threads should be carefully threaded by hand to avoid the possibility of cross-threading. The use of anti-seize compound to coat the threads is recommended. A torque wrench should be utilized to properly tighten all fasteners using specifications listed in the Corvair shop manual. This will help you to avoid damaging any threads in the Corvair engine.

All suspension components should be examined. Ball joints and other front suspension components with grease fittings should be lubricated. Front wheel bearings should be cleaned, inspected, repacked and adjusted. With regard to the rear axle bearings (which are difficult to maintain and service, and are often neglected), here's a quote from the Clark's Corvair Parts catalog…
Clark's Corvair Parts Online Catalog, Page 165 wrote:REAR AXLE (WHEEL) BEARINGS — 1960-1964 CARS

The rear axle bearings are probably the most dangerous part of the whole car. It is not uncommon for the axle shaft to pull right out. In some cases the axle shaft just worked out and others the bearing has failed. The 1965-69 style fixed this but people with the earlier style should not ignore any possible bearing noises!
Rear axle universal joints also tend to be neglected — especially if they are not equipped with grease fittings. These also should be inspected and serviced or replaced, if needed.

:dontknow: I would like to encourage you to expand on your initial post and tell us more about yourself, your Corvair, and your goals for the Corvair. If you can describe your personal assessment of your mechanical skills and abilities, that would help a lot. Members of the Corvair Forum love to be helpful in assisting other Corvair owners with technical support and advice, but it helps a lot if we have some understanding of your technical background and mechanical abilities, Corvair-related knowledge, etc. Helping us to know more about you will help us to write comments to you that are tailored to your needs and experience. Knowing your location is also useful, because knowing where you live can sometimes suggest possibilities.

:welcome:
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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 8 - Electrical Systems.pdf
1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 8 - Electrical Systems
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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

joefarmer
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:42 pm

Brad - Thanks so much! This is exactly what I needed to get started! Never would have known that about the generator if it hadn't been pointed out in your post. I will also update my profile to include some additional information about myself and my experience. Plan to really dig in this weekend and start making a list of action items to get the Monza road worthy.

Thanks again!
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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Steve62
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by Steve62 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:36 pm

Welcome from Southern California! Love your little 4-door!
Could be better, could be worse...could be riding in a hearse!

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n8rwaswrong
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by n8rwaswrong » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:48 pm

I am grateful for this group. So much useful information to help all of us keep Corvairs on the road instead of the crushers. Thanks everyone! Welcome Steve.

Ecklund
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by Ecklund » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:21 am

Hello,

just bought a '64 four door not that dissimilar to yours. The paint on mine isn't rough like yours, its almost all gone.

The posts on brining back your car in this thread look very helpful.

Please post as you go along; I'd like to follow your progress.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

joefarmer
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:04 pm

Ecklund - I saw yours posted the other day and am so glad to see another 64 sedan on the forum!! I created a restoration thread to diary my project called "Memoirs of a Monza" (snappy huh?). You can follow at the link below. I have already subscribed to your thread and am excited to follow your progress. After being on this thread for about a month I've realized that 4 door builds are few and far between. I can't blame them though, coupes look pretty sweet. HOWEVER, I'm a family man! So 4 doors it is!

https://www.corvairforum.com/forum/view ... 52&t=12693
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
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funvairs
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by funvairs » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:19 pm

I addition to what others have mentioned. I would replace the rubber grommet around the dipstick to keep the cooling airflow from escaping through the fan housing. I would also remove the rubber fuel hose from under the fan belt. If you loose a fan belt, there is a chance that it could cut the hose causing a fuel leak. There is a rubber fuel hose connector in the left rear fender well. Move the filter there and relpace the metal line going from there to the fuel pump.
Chris Brown

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joefarmer
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:24 pm

Thanks Chris! You are right on the money when it comes to that fuel line. When I dropped the engine I saw that the fan belt had already worn the hose almost to the point of leaking.

Just to clear up some confusion, I have created a build thread called "Memoirs of a Monza". You can access at the link below. (Didn't want to have my whole build thread in the introduction column). Thanks for following along!

https://www.corvairforum.com/forum/view ... 52&t=12693
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
Follow along at:
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Ecklund
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Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by Ecklund » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:24 am

joefarmer wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:04 pm
Ecklund - I saw yours posted the other day and am so glad to see another 64 sedan on the forum!! I created a restoration thread to diary my project called "Memoirs of a Monza" (snappy huh?). You can follow at the link below. I have already subscribed to your thread and am excited to follow your progress. After being on this thread for about a month I've realized that 4 door builds are few and far between. I can't blame them though, coupes look pretty sweet. HOWEVER, I'm a family man! So 4 doors it is!

https://www.corvairforum.com/forum/view ... 52&t=12693
To me all of the Corvair models have their own appeal; and you are right of course about the coupes visual appeal.

I looked for a four door automatic because it would work best for my personal, (family) situation. But I also like the four door powerglides because I think they best represent the Corvairs original design intent. Literally a people's car but with the US user in mind. A light/small car giving good economy with maximized room for people and stuff, a good ride, durable, reliable and cheap to fix.

The '64 version with its larger engine and updated suspension was just a bonus.

And the smaller EM with that pug face and rear roof over hang? Come on; even today it looks futuristic. And these cars are way more interesting than later Monza/Astre/Vega GM small cars.

I already appreciate this forum very much. It was here that I learned that the rear axle bearings are a possible issue item. At a minimum I'll have the rear bearings inspected and repacked if serviceable, inspect the yoke, replace the u-joints and seal.

Will watch for your progress too.
1964 Corvair 900 (969) four door with powerglide - new project

joefarmer
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Location: Tyler

Re: New from East Texas - 64 Monza

Unread post by joefarmer » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:17 am

It's funny you mention that rear over hang. That's one of my favorite aspects of the EM design!! I wasn't around in the 60's, but I have to imagine that when that particular model was sitting on the showroom floor it caught a lot of attention. :EMs Rule:

I can really appreciate the LM corvairs and what they offered, but it's just too hard to beat the original.
Joe Farmer
64 Corvair Monza 900
Follow along at:
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