Hello from So Cal.

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ChillerPhil
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Hello from So Cal.

Post by ChillerPhil »

Hello Everyone,
I am interested in buying my first Corvair. I have always liked them since finishing my Dad's project vehicle back when I was in college. It was a 1957 VW Bus with Safari Windows that was powered by a 1962 Corvair Spyder engine and Transmission. If that car was a Greenbrier instead, I would have kept it. So now I am looking for what year and model to buy. I prefer a late model convertable spyder with a standard transmission, which seem to be the most expensive. In looking at what is available on the market, what an older car requires and a limited budget, what should I look for and especially "avoid"? It seems to settle out at a partial or incomplete restoration of a early model. I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks, Phil.
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bbodie52
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by bbodie52 »

:welcome2: :wave: Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

FYI: The term "Spyder" was only applicable to early model (1962-1964) turbocharged Corvairs. The Spyder name was dropped in 1965, and the name "Corsa" was applied to 1965-1966 top of the line Corvairs. The 4-carburetor, large valve, dual exhaust 140 hp engine was standard on the Corvair Corsa (this engine was optional and could be ordered on other 1965-1969 Corvairs with automatic or manual transmission). The Corsa was only sold with a 4-speed manual transmission. The 180 hp turbocharged engine was optional, and only sold with the Corsa coupe or convertible. A 4-door Corsa sedan was never marketed.

That being said, I would recommend that you avoid the turbocharged engine in your first Corvair. The turbo engine is somewhat difficult to tune and REQUIRES Premium fuel. Other normally-aspirated Corvair engines can often tolerate Regular or a mid-grade gasoline, but when any Corvair is heavily loaded and the engine is heavily stressed on hot days or when climbing hills, lengthy uphill grades, etc., detonation (pinging) may occur and can quickly damage an engine. Under such conditions Premium fuel may be needed. Most normally aspirated Corvairs can provide gas mileage in the 18-24 mpg range, but turbocharged engines may provide significantly lower gas mileage. The need for Premium fuel combined with poor gas mileage can make the temperamental turbocharged engine less desirable for use as a daily driver. It is fun to own, however! You will have to decide how you expect to use your Corvair.

(If you don't mind a 4-door sedan, the late model sedan might appeal to you and can often be purchased at a lower price. Their weight and performance is very similar to the coupe or convertible. With some custom wheels and tires, many 4-door sedans can be configured to be quite sporty GT-style Corvairs. Remember that many BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi 4-door sedans are quite sporty and perform well. A sharp late model Corvair sedan can fit in with this category of vehicle and can provide you with good performance and handling in your Classic Corvair).

All 1965-1969 Corvairs share the same suspension, brakes, and very similar weight. A 4-speed 140 hp Corvair Monza or Corsa, coupe or convertible, is nearly identical in almost every detail. The main difference is the trim details and the instrument panel (the Corsa has more gauges). Also, many 140 hp Corvairs that are used as daily drivers spend much of their operational time running at low-medium rpm engine speeds, and running mostly on the two primary carburetors. The two secondary carburetors are actuated by a progressive linkage, and unless you drive with a heavy gas pedal foot at full throttle much of the time you might seldom actually open the secondary carburetors on a 140 hp engine. In other words, much of the driving time in a 140 hp Corvair is spent operating the car like a two-carburetor 110 hp Corvair. If you find a 110 hp Monza that appeals to you and is in good condition at a fair price, don't rule it out simply because it is a Monza and not a Corsa, or because it does not have a 140 hp 4-carburetor engine. (The 110 hp and 140 hp engines share the same camshaft and the same 164 CID engine displacement. The 140 hp engine has larger valves, two extra carburetors, and dual exhaust — all of which contribute to the higher peak horsepower).

The link below will take you to one of my earlier posts where I attempt to cover a lot of material to introduce new Corvair fans to the variety of Corvairs that are available. I attempted to cover a lot of pros and cons that may impact your search and decision-making process. I would recommend that you click on this link and read the material that I posted for another Corvair enthusiast who was looking to purchase his first Corvair...

:link: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10452&p=71184&hili ... ion#p71184

Let us know if you have any question specific to your preferences. Please keep in touch and by all means ask before you buy!

:welcome:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by funvairs »

:welcome:
Chris Brown


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cad-kid
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by cad-kid »

Welcome Phil.
Jeremy (cad-kid)
Kronenwetter, WI (Central Wisconsin)
SOLD 9-2016 65 Monza 4spd/140
My 65 Monza thread
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66vairguy
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by 66vairguy »

S. Cal has a LOT of Corvair clubs in it. It would be nice to know what city you are in.

I found going to a Corvair club to meet folks and learn about the car helped a lot BEFORE I bought a Corvair.

As Brad always says, knowing something about your automotive abilities would help us make suggestions.

The Corvair is an "affordable" classic meaning you don't usually find them restored to like new condition which can cost a lot. You can find some nice cars, but they usually need some work. The cost of making a car reliable comes down to if you can do some of the work or need to pay someone else to do it.

Brad made an excellent point about the 110HP engine. It's probably the best Corvair engine for reliability and ease of maintenance. I always recommend this engine to folks the are not "wrench turners". Now - I have to laugh since I just built two 140 engines for my 66 convertible and a 66 four door (yes Brad is correct that a four door is less expensive compared to a coupe or convertible, but handle just the same) and folks say "Hey you always say the 110HP is the best" and I say yes, but I like the look of those four carburetors at a show and I can deal with the complexity. About the convertibles - good grief don't buy one unless your very talented at body work. I call a convertible a bucket with a leaky cover - LOL. I bought one as a last hurrah and it's been an expensive challenge to restore. The coupe or four door are usually in better shape and are LIGHTER and faster.

Now back to that four door. I had a few club guys over to check out my projects and the darn four door got more attention than the convertible! For years four doors were salvaged for parts and now they are getting scarce and being a four door HARDTOP the LM cars are handsome and now a novelty.
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flat6_musik
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by flat6_musik »

Welcome from So. Cal! Hope to see you around......
ChillerPhil
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:23 pm
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA.

Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by ChillerPhil »

I truly appreciate the response from everyone.
I knew there would be alot of information and most of all perspective that I did not have.
Brad and 66vairguy, the information advice and information provided is great.
I live in the city of Rancho Palos Verdes, but Lord willing when I get a Corvair I will petition the city to change the name to Rancho Palos Vairdes.
The South Coast Corsa Club is the nearest organization. I will be attending there next meeting.
I am not a vehicle restorer per se, but perform as much maintence as possible on my vehicles. Depending on who you associate yourself with nowdays, some of my friends can not even change a tire, oil/filter, brakes or a water pump.
I think I would qualify as a "Wrench Spinner", but I am not a body and fender man. That is an entirely different discipline. So with your advising, I will pay extra attention to body issues.
A few more questions come to mind; standard or automatic transmission? I prefer standard. Are "Matching" numbers amongst the major components something to be concerned about?
I do not plan on having the car as a daily driver. it will be hobby, weekend or Sunday go to meeting vehicle.
With a wife and family, I can not afford a "Restored" or "a Restoration". My two boys are juniors, one at the University of Expensive and one in high school, who is also playing baseball. Both requiring significant expenditures.
Thanks, Phil.
66vairguy
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by 66vairguy »

Phil - You'll be welcome at the next meeting. I assume you have the meeting address - it's the Round Table pizza place in the strip mall east of Hawthorne between Artesia and Redondo Bch. Blvd. The club meets in the back room and is informal. Chuck Rust is the president and a great guy. Folks usually show up around 6:30PM to chat and look at cars before the meeting starts at 7:00. Introduce yourself when you arrive. BTW after the meeting on the 20th. the GWFBT in Palm Springs takes place. It's a three day event, but if you go on Saturday you'll see the car show and parts for sale.

The club had a member from Rancho Palos Verdes, Steve Fishman, who passed last year. Steve's health was fragile for years so when he tired I would drive him in his 65 convertible to shows and meets. That convinced me to buy a 66 convertible.

Numbers matching is a low priority for Corvairs. Not that some guys don't redo their Corvair's to Corvette concurs standards, but most are driven and enjoyed. There were changes EVERY year, kind of like the old VW ads "Still looks the same but we made a lot of changes". Too many to explain here. That said Bob Helt has published some great books on Corvairs. One thing to look for is engine and tranny swaps. Let's say a second generation 65-69 car has a first generation 60-64 engine in it. That's going to hurt resale value.

I suggest taking your take time to decide if you want an EM (early model 60-64) or a LM (late model 65-69). I like them both, but settled on LM cars to restore. In 1966 a number of changes were made, including installing a two piece steering column that was safer than the 1965 one piece "chest crusher" shaft. The 66 design did not satisfy the Fed's and in 1967 - 69 a truly collapsible steering column was used. Also the 66 A/C condenser design was revised to improve engine maintenance access (both my cars have A/C). Now A/C is rare in a Corvair and in the South Bay isn't really needed for a hobby car.

Probably more than you wanted to know at the moment. Come to the meeting and ask questions. BTW Dan Drommerhausen is a long time member and the ONLY reliable Corvair manual transmission rebuilder in S. Calif. Dan is a real wrench turner and for a few beers is always willing to help a club member. Don't feel obliged to join until you are sure you want a Corvair, you'll still be welcome.
66vairguy
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by 66vairguy »

Phil - Darn - before Brad calls me out I have to make a correction. The two piece steering column was actually implemented during the 1965 model year, although exactly when I've never been able to determine.
ChillerPhil
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by ChillerPhil »

I plan on attending the next meeting.
Do not apologize for the lengthly reply.
What resource is utilized for verifying acceptable component changes?
What is your opinion on exchanging transmissions in a vehicle, automatic for a standard?
Thanks, Phil.
66vairguy
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by 66vairguy »

ChillerPhil wrote:I plan on attending the next meeting.
Do not apologize for the lengthly reply.
What resource is utilized for verifying acceptable component changes?
What is your opinion on exchanging transmissions in a vehicle, automatic for a standard?
Thanks, Phil.
Phil - Depending on who you ask you'll get different answers. As far a verifying a car, you need to read the books, learn to decode the body tag, and find someone(s) with experience to go look at a car with you (and offer to buy them lunch - LOL).

If a car has an interesting history/provenance then you do not want to change it. An example is the restoration of the Corvair convertible Spyder Carl Sagan owned.

You do find a number of EM cars with the LM 140HP four carburetor engines. It's considered a desirable upgrade even if not CORRECT.

Folks like to tinker and get creative, that's fine, but one person's great idea is another person's "that's awful". The low cost of a Corvair encourages folks to buy them to customize/revise. So ---- if you want to keep the car then you can do what you want. If you want to sell the car in the future you have to consider if you'll get your money invested back and if the "changes" will be appealing to the next owner. In the old car world there are folks who place a lot of value on stock and original. I respect that and hate to see an original, correct, low mileage car changed. However ---- there are a lot of cars that are worn out, beat up, that make great platforms for modifications and customizing. I bought a solid four door with a worn out engine and PG transaxle, lousy paint, lousy interior, but factory A/C! I'm in the process of installing a rebuilt 140HP, rebuilt 4 speed transaxle, and I'll upgrade the A/C with a modern Sanden compressor and R134a. It won't be correct, but it will be desirable if I ever have to sell it.
ChillerPhil
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by ChillerPhil »

Is the South Coast CORSA meeting tonight? The websites last listed meeting date is from July.
Thanks, Phil.
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bbodie52
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by bbodie52 »

Club official email addresses and phone numbers are shown below, along with the recent (May 2015) club newsletter, which also lists contacts on page 24. Recommend you phone or email them directly to obtain current club meeting information.

Image

CORSA Chapter Locator - South Coast CORSA
Image
Chapter ID: 903
Organization Name: South Coast CORSA (Approximately 30 miles from Long Beach)
Street Address (Primary): South Coast CORSA Corvair, c/o Greg Vargas, 2340 Virginia Ave, Santa Monica, CA 90404
President: Chuck Rust, Phone: (310) 679-7443, Email: margierust@yahoo.com
Vice President: Darrin McGlothan, Phone: (310) 908-8492, Email: darmac66@aol.com
Home: 5894 Green Valley Cir, Culver City, CA 90230-6906
Secretary & Treasurer: Greg Czopek, Phone: (562) 490-0845, Email: gregcz6069@gmail.com
Home: 3709 Walnut Ave, Long Beach, CA 90807-4336
Technical Officer: Dan Drommerhausen, Phone: (310) 518-2377
Home: 536 E Pacific St, Carson, CA 90745-5931
Newsletter Editor: Greg "Goyo"Vargas, Phone: (310) 998-0095, Email: vargascorvairmonza@hotmail.com,
Home: 2340 Virginia Ave, Santa Monica, CA 90404
Newsletter Name: South Coast CORSA Corvair
Sample Newsletter:
South Coast CORSA Newsletter - May 2015.pdf
South Coast CORSA Newsletter - May 2015
(7.53 MiB) Downloaded 11 times
Website: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/southcoast/
Email (Primary): vargascorvairmonza@hotmail.com
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
ChillerPhil
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by ChillerPhil »

Thanks Brad.
I attend the meeting and joined the club last night. Lively and enjoyable meeting I must say, great group of people.
Someone else visited last night as well, in the hopes of selling a car. I saw it today, the third of four cars i have checked that had significant amounts of corrosion or repair, body filler/fiber glass.
Thanks, Phil.
ChillerPhil
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Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA.

Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by ChillerPhil »

Did Chevrolet offer a three speed transmission for the Corvairs? As I have found the manual transmission described as such in a few adds.
Thanks, Phil.
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cad-kid
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Re: Hello from So Cal.

Post by cad-kid »

The three speed was the standard transmission. 4 speed and auto were an up-charge. You could get a 140 and a turbo with a 3 speed (although hardly anyone did).
Jeremy (cad-kid)
Kronenwetter, WI (Central Wisconsin)
SOLD 9-2016 65 Monza 4spd/140
My 65 Monza thread
:soapbox: My YouTube page
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